Top Cats Hat Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Nothing can or will be passed by parliament, so no-deal it is. Not necessarily. Any vote in parliament could be amended by any MP to include a 'remain as we are' option. And there are plenty of pro remain MPs to put together a meaningful amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) Democracy isn't subverted by more democracy. A vocal minority, claiming to speak for the people whilst trying to disenfranchise the majority IS subverting democracy through. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 05:10 ---------- Give the democratic people another say. And when the vocal minority don't get their way a second time, then what? ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 05:13 ---------- Your point is shot to bits and dead on the floor... so lets go back to saying the same thing over and over again In reality, the outcome of the referendum was always advisory & never guaranteed we would be leaving the single market or customs union. The offical Vote Leave's own projections showing Brexit not being a disaster all involved staying within the EEA/CU, and was always the preferred outcome of the official campaign. For someone who's constantly whining about "cherry picking history", you sure do have to do a lot of it Seems you have forgotten the little booklet that we all got from our ex PM and remainer. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 05:28 ---------- No. Everything he said was perfectly true and is something that has needed to be said for a very long time. The UK, well, the Brexiters are behaving like spoilt children. They've just been spanked in public as is befitting and the first thing they do is cry about it. Perhaps learning from it would be a better way forward. Can't see many leavers crying but can see most of them rubbing their hands together at the Chequers deal being rejected. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 05:37 ---------- I think you'll find it is, it's called "a frank exchange of views" Nope, given the choice of "no-deal" or staying/compromising on SM/CU/ECJ, most leavers would rather the latter, as shown in countless polls since the referedum, and exit polls on the day. Your assumption doesn't reflect the reality of then, or now Unfortunately, those harping on about democracy also forget that that is not the result the vast majority want today.... People wanting a second vote now outweigh those than don't by a larger margin than the referendum result. Please provide factual evidence for your statements above. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 05:51 ---------- Regardless, more democracy does not subvert democracy, no matter how much you continue to claim otherwise That's the third time now. I presume you thought it sounded clever when the guest on Question Time said it. Edited September 22, 2018 by Lex Luthor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Might knock a bit of sense in there. Clearly reading Biggles hasn't given lock doctor sufficient knowledge of world war 2, world at war will fill in the gaps. He won't forget it! Not read Biggles but have watched the Darkest Hour. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 07:34 ---------- No she isn't out of the red yet she's in for a harder time ahead, and for that reason I do have some sympathy for her, but I was rather annoyed with her after hearing that speech, not only for appearing to blame the EU for disrespecting her, but for stubbornly refusing to even consider another referendum. Do you mean for stubbornly respecting the result of the EU referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) A vocal minority, claiming to speak for the people whilst trying to disenfranchise the majority IS subverting democracy through. Indeed, most leavers *don't* want a hard Brexit. And when the vocal minority don't get their way a second time, then what? They won't, the *majority* either want to compomise or bin Brexit entirely. Seems you have forgotten the little booklet that we all got from our ex PM and remainer. Oh really, in that case, since you're such an expert, you'll be able to tell me what page the promise to leave the customs union is in that booklet? Please provide factual evidence for your statements above. http://comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BBC-News_Tables_Brexit-Expectations_11072016.pdf Only 35% of leavers actually wanted to leave the Single Market just after the referendum For results of what people want today, see nearly every poll from the last year. That's the third time now. I presume you thought it sounded clever when the guest on Question Time said it. LOL, I wouldn't know, I didn't see it. You probably think you are clever with your Question Time quip, but regardless, the statement is true Edited September 22, 2018 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads36 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 hackey lad The EU seem to have blocked any deals and as she said its time for the EU to say what they want The EU have offered us several deals. They offered something like Norway (as a starting point) - we said no, too closely aligned with the EU. So they offered something like Canada (as a starting point) - we said no, not *enough* aligned with the EU. It's us that have blocked all the starting points. I'm glad the EU are still talking to us, we need saving from ourselves. They've got more patience than I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Not read Biggles but have watched the Darkest Hour. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 07:34 ---------- Do you mean for stubbornly respecting the result of the EU referendum? No, stubbornly refusing to accept that the campaign broke the law, people didn't know what they were voting for and the public have changed their minds. All of which make a second referendum necessary. You don't want one because you know you'll lose it this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Mrs May voted to remain. Enlighten us when Mrs May has been disrespectful to the EU or other EU leaders? The other EU countries set out the acceptable terms right at the start: a much enhanced Canada-style deal or a Norway style deal. They also said that the four freedoms of the EU could not be diluted by any deal. The disrespect has come from the U.K. ignoring those terms, coming up with the insane Chequers plan, then sneaking behind Barnier’s back. As for other Brexiters, like yourself, the disrespect flows every day of the week with xenophobic inflammatory ill-informed nonsense ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 09:27 ---------- No, stubbornly refusing to accept that the campaign broke the law, people didn't know what they were voting for and the public have changed their minds. All of which make a second referendum necessary. You don't want one because you know you'll lose it this time. He lost last time, and look what happened. If remain won it’d become the biggest remainer on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I don't believe for a second that LD voted remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy69 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The EU have offered us several deals. They offered something like Norway (as a starting point) - we said no, too closely aligned with the EU. So they offered something like Canada (as a starting point) - we said no, not *enough* aligned with the EU. It's us that have blocked all the starting points. I'm glad the EU are still talking to us, we need saving from ourselves. They've got more patience than I have. Have Canada left the EU? When did that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Consequences- the Pound crashes to 1,11 Euro, despite inflation indicators showing an upward trend. The pound is set to fall further, especially if the current chaos continues to rule. That will accelerate inflation, but with the political background the value of the pound won't rise. The only people benefiting are the export heavy companies and their shareholders. The internal market will increasingly suffer as prices on imported goods rocket up - even without new trade barriers in place. It all indicates to economic meltdown of an epic self-inflicted scale. May is still running around with a sulky lip after having her hand smacked firmly when it was reaching for the cookie jar in Salzburg. The cookie jar isn't available any more, the UK will need to bake its own, that is what Brexit means. It is a wonderful job that our leading experts Jakey Reesmug and Davey Davis have an excellent grasp of how to achieve that. There are no answers, no winners and no solutions. Farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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