Lockdoctor Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The other EU countries set out the acceptable terms right at the start: a much enhanced Canada-style deal or a Norway style deal. They also said that the four freedoms of the EU could not be diluted by any deal. The disrespect has come from the U.K. ignoring those terms, coming up with the insane Chequers plan, then sneaking behind Barnier’s back. As for other Brexiters, like yourself, the disrespect flows every day of the week with xenophobic inflammatory ill-informed nonsense Mrs May stated from the very start when she became Prime Minister that a no deal is better than a bad deal. The Norway model would mean that freedom of movement would continue and the Canadian model wouldn't solve the Irish border issue. In any case the UK is not Norway or Canada, but people like you would like the UK to become EU state number 28, which effectively they would become if Mrs May surrenders to pacify sore loses and those who don't respect democracy. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 09:56 ---------- I don't believe for a second that LD voted remain. Do you believe Mrs May voted remain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Mrs May stated from the very start when she became Prime Minister that a no deal is better than a bad deal. The Norway model would mean that freedom of movement would continue and the Canadian model wouldn't solve the Irish border issue. In any case the UK is not Norway or Canada, but people like you would like the UK to become EU state number 28, which effectively they would become if Mrs May surrenders to pacify sore loses and those who don't respect democracy. ---------- Post added 22-09-2018 at 09:56 ---------- Do you believe Mrs May voted remain? The EU offered options that are compatible with the four freedoms. EEA membership right now would solve all the immediate practical problems. But leavers are too blinkered to comprehend that. We are currently one of the 28 members. And have had membership since 1973. According to you when you voted you wanted that to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads36 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Have Canada left the EU? When did that happen? Canada and the EU have recently agreed a trade deal. It took years, and is the current best-example of an EU trade deal with a 3rd party. We have 3 choices. Remain, no deal, or something like Canada. We said no to the Canada deal. Twice I think? (It is *possible* that we could negotiate our own bespoke deal, but that will take y.e.a.r.s.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The EU offered options that are compatible with the four freedoms. EEA membership right now would solve all the immediate practical problems. But leavers are too blinkered to comprehend that. We are currently one of the 28 members. And have had membership since 1973. According to you when you voted you wanted that to continue. Mrs May clearly stated yesterday that accepting any of the options offered would make a mockery of the EU referendum vote. Yes, I voted for the UK to remain in the EU because I hadn't been convinced to vote leave. It made sense to me personally because my life and the lives of my family were good in the UK. However, I respect the people who voted to leave and it was their democratic choice to do so whether they believed the grass was greener on the other side of the fence or not. As I have stated previously if you believe in democracy then you accept and respect democratic choices that you personally didn't choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve68 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) I don't believe for a second that LD voted remain. I voted remain, but since then I've looked at the subject more in terms of what is the makeup of Brussels, its just a very old school racist, Gammon institution through to the bone, as a non racist and non meat eater, I don't want to belong. Before you or any others here jump to a judgement that I'm a Right wing leaning Tory, I'll add that I'm one of the NUJ members that unanimously voted, approx 16-0 to take the BNP right to a platform away, some years ago hence the approximation, as I know minute details are your thing Cyclone. When we (one) country leave the ethic makeup of Brussels will be almost Halved leaving approx 9 non British ethic MEPs from 700+ Europe is run as a white mans club, anyone of ethic colour is obviously a lesser soul in those countries, other than cleaners, security and subservient posts, it's for the Gammon their family and friends to enjoy. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/martin-selmayr-promoted-director-general-jean-claude-juncker-eu-brussels-a8221356.html From my view point Europe needs to be broken, even if it means we break first. Edited September 22, 2018 by steve68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Mrs May clearly stated yesterday that accepting any of the options offered would make a mockery of the EU referendum vote. Yes, I voted for the UK to remain in the EU because I hadn't been convinced to vote leave. It made sense to me personally because my life and the lives of my family were good in the UK. However, I respect the people who voted to leave and it was their democratic choice to do so whether they believed the grass was greener on the other side of the fence or not. As I have stated previously if you believe in democracy then you accept and respect democratic choices that you personally didn't choose. The thing is it is her interpretation of the vote, the interpretation she used to fight a GE that she did not win, after triggering A50 far too early. Following her GE fiasco she then complicated the NI issue by climbing into bed with the DUP Her interpretation led to the Chequers proposal, that has been rejected by a huge swathe of her party and crucially also by the EU Her plan is dead. Her only alternative is no deal. And that will be an economic catastrophe. As I’ve said before many times the economy is the key factor. When people get hit in the pocket, when their services are taken away, when their pensions fall or aren’t paid on time, when they lose their houses, lose their jobs, see their kids on the dole etc... etc... that is when it is going to hit Home what a terrible mistake this is. You can’t absolve yourself from blame by falsely claiming to have voted remain, or with your stuck record fatally flawed mantra about the democratic people, whoever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Indeed, most leavers *don't* want a hard Brexit. I'm not sure that's accurate. I see precious little backing of the chequers deal from leavers. I think most people who voted leave either now want to remain or want the hardest of hard brexits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) I'm not sure that's accurate. I see precious little backing of the chequers deal from leavers. OK, let me re-phrase, most leavers never wanted a hard-brexit or even to leave the single market, let alone the customs union... at the time of the vote. That no-one backs the chequers deal isn't a surprise, it was always going to be a nonsense since we're basically asking for unicorns and cake. I think most people who voted leave either now want to remain or want the hardest of hard brexits. Indeed, but how to determine which of those options it is? Hence the need for a public vote on the final terms. Edited September 22, 2018 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Let’s face it Chequers is a Brexit for one faction of the Tory elite It ticks the box of no CU/SM on services to help the rich avoid the impending tightening of tax regulations in 2019 and that was what the timing of A50 was all about anyway It throws a few scraps to business leaders to try and keep them happy. It throws a few scraps to people in the U.K. to make us hope the economy won’t crash It rides roughshod over the requirements of the EU, that is intended to try and get hardline Brexiters on side. That won’t work - the two factions of the party are in full scale war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The thing is it is her interpretation of the vote, the interpretation she used to fight a GE that she did not win, after triggering A50 far too early. Following her GE fiasco she then complicated the NI issue by climbing into bed with the DUP Her interpretation led to the Chequers proposal, that has been rejected by a huge swathe of her party and crucially also by the EU Her plan is dead. Her only alternative is no deal. And that will be an economic catastrophe. As I’ve said before many times the economy is the key factor. When people get hit in the pocket, when their services are taken away, when their pensions fall or aren’t paid on time, when they lose their houses, lose their jobs, see their kids on the dole etc... etc... that is when it is going to hit Home what a terrible mistake this is. You can’t absolve yourself from blame by falsely claiming to have voted remain, or with your stuck record fatally flawed mantra about the democratic people, whoever they are. You're accusing me of falsely claiming to have voted remain and at the same time dishonestly implying there can be alternative interpretations of the EU referendum vote. The honest interpretation of the EU vote is the democratic people wanted to leave the EU. It would be a mockery of the vote, if free movement of people continued, the UK remained in the EU Customs Union and the UK was still subject to EU Law after the UK leave the EU. Mrs May suggested an alternative Custom Union plan at Chequers, which led to a lot of confusion in an attempt to get a deal. Mrs May's problem has always been that her own MPs are split between those still wanting to stay in the EU and those who want to leave the EU/ accept democratic referendum vote, which is why the Chequers plan was unpopular. Any Prime Minister that respects the democratic referendum result, would have the same problems to get a deal, which Mrs May has. Yes, I agree Mrs May made a big mistake with the 2017 General Election. However, if the result had been different and the Labour party needed the support of the SNP to govern, then there is no doubt the EU referendum vote wouldn't have been respected. The DUP have helped to respect the referendum result as well as making sure different rules don't apply in Northern Ireland after Brexit to what will apply in the rest of the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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