I1L2T3 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, RJRB said: I rather think that you are overstating your case,and by doing so diminish your arguments. Regrettably the world seems to be going through a phase of Nationalism protectionism and Populism (Trump being one of the prime examples),but we have seen from history where this leads. Farage stirred up the whole racial stereotype business which appealed to the Sun readers,but it would be a major mistake for any mainstream politicians to pursue this line, As previously stated ,as a nation our record in being fair minded stands comparison with most Farage is a mainstream politician. Him and UKIP received a lot of media airtime that reflected the size of his voter base. Tough to accept but true. And indicative of the problem. It’s been a very simple step for UKIP to go from a veneer of reasonableness under Farage to full fat street politics under Bolton. And you have millions of people that will still vote for that, with 95% or more of those people contributing to the core of Brexit suppport. that is what we are dealing with. Loob is right. You can’t pretend it isn’t happening and bat it away as a global problem. We have to deal with our own problem here in the U.K. and politicians who could deal with that haven’t 9 hours ago, Car Boot said: It's a shame that you cannot comprehend an economic system beyond the one you were raised under. Brexit has the potential to bring about a bright, progressive new future. This is why the Remain Echo Chamber on here and elsewhere is increasingly frightened. Potential? For exactly what? Edited November 28, 2018 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said: Potential? For exactly what? To be poorer, under any version of Brexit, as confirmed by Phil Hammond moments ago. The U.K. faces bigger problems than legitimised immigrant-bashing , for that is merely a by-product of economic precarity (-started in anger from 2008): no doubt Leavers will just ‘Osbourne’ Hammond’s comments, so no nearer a solution. Edited November 28, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, L00b said: To be poorer, under any version of Brexit, as confirmed by Phil Hammond moments ago. The U.K. faces bigger problems than legitimised immigrant-bashing , for that is merely a by-product of economic precarity: no doubt Leavers will just ‘Osbourne’ Hammond’s comments, so no nearer a solution. Indeed. The only thing ‘gained’ is state sanctioned xenophobia. What a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, L00b said: Thank you for your constructive comments. The issue with rising nationalism and populism, is that you cannot disrupt them with tolerance and reasoned debate: that soft approach eventually results exactly to “where this leads”, indeed as shown by history. The evidence of it is in the verifiable fact that immigrant-demonising rethoric has been espoused by both the Tories and Labour since the referendum (that “major mistake” is ongoing) as they are pandering to perceived voter bias, and there is no evidence of any about-face. We’re not talking Facebook posts by fringes, we’re talking leading public figures in public speeches. Your closing comment is fair, but it is approaching its sell-by-date through the words and actions of your political class and government, and the U.K. public has been letting them since before February 2016, and still. That is why I am ‘overstating’ the case. I think that we may have achieved rapprochement. My overwhelming feeling from the referendum result onwards is one of embarrassment that our countries population has chosen to diminish our reputation in the eyes of the world. This was fuelled by the likes of Farage and because it had resonance with a certain little Englander mentality ,it was increasingly taken up by our major political parties. I am heartily sick of daily bulletins from MPs trying to justify the latest negotiations when the best that they can offer is “it will not be as good as being in the EU,but it will not be as bad as you fear”. Terrific ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 8 hours ago, RJRB said: I rather think that you are overstating your case,and by doing so diminish your arguments. Regrettably the world seems to be going through a phase of Nationalism protectionism and Populism (Trump being one of the prime examples),but we have seen from history where this leads. Farage stirred up the whole racial stereotype business which appealed to the Sun readers,but it would be a major mistake for any mainstream politicians to pursue this line, As previously stated ,as a nation our record in being fair minded stands comparison with most I read somewhere that 1 in 4 voters in the Eurozone give their vote to either populist or far-right parties. 9 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: Are you looking forward to eating rat excrement? I’ll be honest, I’m not. If you don't want to eat 'rat excrement' then don't! 'Project Fear' strikes again. Oh dear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, RJRB said: I think that we may have achieved rapprochement. My overwhelming feeling from the referendum result onwards is one of embarrassment that our countries population has chosen to diminish our reputation in the eyes of the world. This was fuelled by the likes of Farage and because it had resonance with a certain little Englander mentality ,it was increasingly taken up by our major political parties. I am heartily sick of daily bulletins from MPs trying to justify the latest negotiations when the best that they can offer is “it will not be as good as being in the EU,but it will not be as bad as you fear”. Terrific ! I am embarrassed that the people of our country including the MPs didn't unite behind the democratic decision our country made. I am embarrassed we have dishonest MPs who overwhelmingly authorised the democratic EU referendum vote but only have a minority of honest MPs who respect the decision of the democratic people they asked to decide our country's future with the EU. I am embarrassed there are so many people amongst who don't believe we are a good enough country to continue to proper outside of the EU. It's not the people who voted to leave the EU who have diminished our reputation in the eyes of the World, it is the people in our country who have no respect for democracy who have diminished our reputation and turned us into a nation that can bark loudly, but has not bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: I am embarrassed that the people of our country including the MPs didn't unite behind the democratic decision our country made. I am embarrassed we have dishonest MPs who overwhelmingly authorised the democratic EU referendum vote but only have a minority of honest MPs who respect the decision of the democratic people they asked to decide our country's future with the EU. I am embarrassed there are so many people amongst who don't believe we are a good enough country to continue to proper outside of the EU. It's not the people who voted to leave the EU who have diminished our reputation in the eyes of the World, it is the people in our country who have no respect for democracy who have diminished our reputation and turned us into a nation that can bark loudly, but has not bite. Good morning comrade...The leavers don't think we're good enough to hold our own in Europe....you still haven't explained how a united front would have got us a better leaving deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, truman said: Good morning comrade...The leavers don't think we're good enough to hold our own in Europe....you still haven't explained how a united front would have got us a better leaving deal... If we had been united including Parliament then the EU would have known we would walk away from a bad deal and we would not have made the concessions we have done throughout the negotiating process. It doesn't matter whatever you're negotiating for, you only get a good deal when the people on the other side of the negotiation know you're prepared to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Magilla said: No evidence so far that there's any possibility of that actually happening, quite the opposite. .. and yet, *you're* the one posting hysterical, misleading rhetoric Indeed, Trumps words haven't done the Brexit project any favours, a choice has to be made re: reglatory alignment. Everyone and his cat can see the USA's standards aren't the direction the UK should be going. He's made a better case for remaining aligned with EU standards than May ever could. Really? I'm not posting that Brexit will mean we have to eat rat excrement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: I am embarrassed that the people of our country including the MPs didn't unite behind the democratic decision our country made. I am embarrassed we have dishonest MPs who overwhelmingly authorised the democratic EU referendum vote but only have a minority of honest MPs who respect the decision of the democratic people they asked to decide our country's future with the EU. I am embarrassed there are so many people amongst who don't believe we are a good enough country to continue to proper outside of the EU. I'm embarrassed that you're embarrassed considering the referendum would always split the nation. What you should be embarrassed about is the notion that the views of the 48% should be entirely ignored, something even arch Brexiteer Dan Hannan thinks is ridiculous. That's why Brexit is a failure. 7 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: It's not the people who voted to leave the EU who have diminished our reputation in the eyes of the World. Yes, it is.. entirely. For most of the world, the vote to leave the EU is regarded as the stupidest decision a country has ever made. 4 minutes ago, Car Boot said: I'm not posting that Brexit will mean we have to eat rat excrement! tinfoilhat's post has some truth to it, yours... not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts