Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[altus]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

The EMA aren't going to wait another two years before approving the Pfizer vaccine for use. The EMA intend to give approval by the end of the year and their decision won't be influenced by what happens in the UK during the next 3 weeks.  Other countries including the EU bloc of 27 will benefit from seeing how the UK copes with the logistics involved in storing and administrating the Pfizer vaccine. 

And Pfizer aren't going to wait another two years before updating the regulators on what's been happening. It's not even about them reporting lots of people suddenly dropping dead after being vaccinated. Them stating "None of the participants of our trial have had adverse effects from the vaccine during the last month" is still more data - it's an extra month of everything going OK and would add confidence to a regulator's decision to approve the vaccine.

[Mister M]

3 hours ago, West 77 said:

A weak point if I am being generous. Of course the effects of prescribing a vaccine on the general population will be known much better after it has been widely giving out. This will be helpful  to determine how long a Covid vaccine gives protection for.  The UK population at this time look to be closer getting protection from Covid-19 than the EU population in the 27 bloc. 

And given that it's ben revealed today that shamefully Britain has the highest death toll in Europe from COVID-19 we need that protection!

I hope when Williamson was gloating about Britain being the greatest country in Europe with regards to covid, he wasn't including colleagues in his government.

I think most reasonable people would agree that the UK government response has been lamentable

Edited December 3, 2020 by Mister M

[RJRB]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

And given that it's ben revealed today that shamefully Britain has the highest death toll in Europe from COVID-19 we need that protection!

I hope when Williamson was gloating about Britain being the greatest country in Europe with regards to covid, he wasn't including colleagues in his government.

I think most reasonable people would agree that the UK government response has been lamentable

Totally agree.

Williamsons comments are totally crass and misjudged.

Jingoism always grates with me ,and at a time when I hope that the best brains in the word are combining to get us all out of this mess,then Williamson ,Rees Mogg and Hancock should forget the political point scoring both domestically and internationally.

 

[L00b]

8 hours ago, RJRB said:

Totally agree.

Williamsons comments are totally crass and misjudged.

Jingoism always grates with me ,and at a time when I hope that the best brains in the word are combining to get us all out of this mess,then Williamson ,Rees Mogg and Hancock should forget the political point scoring both domestically and internationally.

 

International political point-scoring by Williamson, JRM, Hancock, Patel <etc> is one that you really don't need to worry about, I'm sorry to say.

 

In case you haven't heard (because there doesn't seem to be much Brexit reporting in UK media lately, never mind factual), the negotiating long knives are currently coming out in France, The Netherlands, Denmark and a few others: they're unhappy with how easy Barnier is taking it on Frost and the UK, and would rather the deal negotiations get back-burnered into next year. I don't need to go further about that one, I think.

 

Williamsons' jingoistic optics are seen and understood for what they are might be, i.e. helping Johnson with some extra political capital at home to get a deal past the ERG headbangers, same as all the other jingoistic optics since Lancaster House in 2017.

 

But you're in serious danger of getting written off everywhere now, especially now that Biden is incoming to the White House and Trump's "clout" has been made redundant. The EU27, with UK-bordering countries ahead (France, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany), stayed fairly quiet for the past 4 years and just got on with adapting to a Brexited UK: they don't need a deal now, anywhere near as much as they may have needed one 4, or even 2, years ago. E.g. there's been tons of new ferry lines opened between Ireland and the Continent, towards making the UK redundant as a landbridge, and the rest is in keeping.

Edited December 4, 2020 by L00b

[nightrider]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

International political point-scoring by Williamson, JRM, Hancock, Patel <etc> is one that you really don't need to worry about, I'm sorry to say.

 

In case you haven't heard (because there doesn't seem to be much Brexit reporting in UK media lately, never mind factual), the negotiating long knives are currently coming out in France, The Netherlands, Denmark and a few others: they're unhappy with how easy Barnier is taking it on Frost and the UK, and would rather the deal negotiations get back-burnered into next year. I don't need to go further about that one, I think.

 

Williamsons' jingoistic optics are seen and understood for what they are might be, i.e. helping Johnson with some extra political capital at home to get a deal past the ERG headbangers, same as all the other jingoistic optics since Lancaster House in 2017.

 

But you're in serious danger of getting written off everywhere now, especially now that Biden is incoming to the White House and Trump's "clout" has been made redundant. The EU27, with UK-bordering countries ahead (France, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany), stayed fairly quiet for the past 4 years and just got on with adapting to a Brexited UK: they don't need a deal now, anywhere near as much as they may have needed one 4, or even 2, years ago. E.g. there's been tons of new ferry lines opened between Ireland and the Continent, towards making the UK redundant as a landbridge, and the rest is in keeping.

To be honest it's a lesson many English need to learn the hard way. There's no convincing committed brexiteers, but perhaps the hard reality of life next year will:

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-latest-uk-brace-months-food-shortages-1-january-delivery-782518

 

We've already stocked up on food.

 

[RJRB]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

There is clearly much jealousy that the UK is the first country to have bested the EU and not voted again to reverse a democratic choice not to the liking of the EU hierarchy.  The EU have done well mainly due to the help of Remainers by making it difficult to leave their organisation. It will be a while before any other EU nation have a referendum on whether to leave the EU. Countries like Poland and Hungary are certainly not happen the way the EU is run. To suggest Germany a massive exporter to the UK are not interested in a deal is laughable. Biden being the next US President will make very little difference for the UK. There is a big difference in saying things before you are in power to doing things when you are in power. The UK will always be the best country in the World just like Gavin Williamson believes.

A very strange choice of words.

”Jealousy,bested” 

Personally I couldn’t care less if an effective vaccine is rolled out by any country as long as the world population benefits.

Of course anyone with a couple of brain cells sees the need for a mutually beneficial trade deal,but to expect every element to be suited to one side is never going to happen.

It’s not the Pro Europeans who say that a No Deal is in anyway acceptable,but as I have said before is that Johnson is more concerned with how his leadership and position is criticised by the Eurosceptics in his own party.

If a No Deal happens then he has put his own interests over that of the country

 

[alchresearch]

16 hours ago, Mister M said:

And given that it's ben revealed today that shamefully Britain has the highest death toll in Europe from COVID-19

Top or fourth, depending on how you look at the data:

 

Quote

As of December 3, 2020, Belgium had the highest rate of coronavirus deaths among its population in the European Economic Area at 147.62 deaths per 100,000 population. Spain has recorded 97.54 deaths from coronavirus per 100,000.

 

The United Kingdom has the highest number of confirmed coronavirus deaths in Europe, which is also an incidence of 89.57 deaths per 100,000 people in the country.

 

Incidence of coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in the European Economic Area and the United Kingdom as of December 3, 2020, by country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

[L00b]

4 hours ago, nightrider said:

To be honest it's a lesson many English need to learn the hard way. There's no convincing committed brexiteers, but perhaps the hard reality of life next year will:

 

(...)

Sadly, I'm pretty certain that it won't, and that these challenges will simply polarise the British public still further.

[Pettytom]

3 hours ago, West 77 said:

Boris Johnson assured the ERG before they agreed to support the amended Withdrawal Agreement that the transitional period would not be extended beyond 31st December 2020.  Boris Johnson doesn't need the support of the ERG regarding any of the possible outcomes of the current trade negotiations with the EU.  A no trade deal is one of the two possible outcomes and it's prejudicial on your part to say if a no deal happens that Boris Johnson has put his own interests before country.  If you want to play the blame game then the EU will be as equal or more to blame than the UK Government if a trade deal is not agreed before 31st December. Anyone with a couple of brain cells should know that nobody negotiating anything is to blame from walking away from a bad deal. Boris Johnson has a duty to walk away from a bad trade deal with the EU because that will be in the best interests of the country as well as honouring the 2016 EU referendum result.

Brexit is entirely the fault of the Tory party. If we fail to get a deal, that will be their fault too.

None of this is the fault of the EU, so stop pretending that it is and own your own mess.

[Baron99]

Just watched David Davis on BBC Breakfast news discussing the pause in the Brexit negotiations. 

 

He explained, (& he probably knows more than any of us on here & is closer to those involved), that Brussels, (the Commissioners), aren't happy with the late intervention of Macron, as a deal was virtually considered done, especially around the fishing issue.  Macron is merely playing to the gallery, trying to look tough for domestic politics, as he looks towards the French presidential election in 2022.

 

Additionally, Berlin aren't happy with Macron, as Merkel is being pressured by business leaders in Germany, to get a deal done before 31/12/20, as they want some continuity & they recognise that the UK is a valuable market for their goods. 

 

A no deal is bad for all in the short-term, including the French fishing industry who, if there is no deal, won't have ANY ACCESS at all to our fishing waters, come January 1st.

 

So the stumbling block in all this, appears to be one individual, Macron. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Baron99