apelike Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Magilla said: Not quite, the UK is obliged to restrict counterfeits, ensure environmental safety, deter human smuggling, protect industrial and commercial property and safeguarding national treasures (amongst other things) as a signatory to United Nations charters. Most of them rely on having borders. No. Borders may be put in place to ensure the above but are not compulsory in law,, which makes a big difference. It is still possible to do those checks at various locations and not just at border controls. 7 hours ago, Magilla said: How will that stop those people loading up the car with counterfeit or restricted goods and just driving over the border? Sounds like a smugglers paradise and would almost certainly bring widespread litigation at the WTO. What's to stop them doing that now when there is no border? 6 hours ago, Cyclone said: We will of course have to continue to comply with EU legislation to sell goods into the EU and presumably to mark them CE. We won't have any say over what those standards are though. I think it has been proposed that we have a UKCE mark for our standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, apelike said: No. Borders may be put in place to ensure the above but are not compulsory in law,, which makes a big difference. It is still possible to do those checks at various locations and not just at border controls. What's to stop them doing that now when there is no border? It isn't illegal to do so. So nothing - in the rose-tinted world of post apocalypse brexit, it would be illegal to do so, but there wouldn't be anything stopping it being done (unless there was a hard border but there couldn't be because Mrs May says the Border pixies will have sorted it all out... ad infinitum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Well, on the guardian and other left-leaning Online offerings there is a lot of soul searching going on about trying to understand the strong vote for Brexit in deprived areas. It is nonsense. There is no point. The time has come for people to experience the full force of Brexit. It is going to be horrific. Only then are they going to comprehend. Even if we stayed in all trust is gone in us as a trading nation. We’ve lost our integrity. And our dignity. 25 minutes ago, apelike said: No. Borders may be put in place to ensure the above but are not compulsory in law,, which makes a big difference. It is still possible to do those checks at various locations and not just at border controls. What's to stop them doing that now when there is no border? I think it has been proposed that we have a UKCE mark for our standards. Let’s just have CE. Its the result of collaboration between all EU states and all their trading partners. Edited February 2, 2019 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, apelike said: No. Borders may be put in place to ensure the above but are not compulsory in law,, which makes a big difference. It is still possible to do those checks at various locations and not just at border controls. Cool, so how will those checks stop smuggling if they don't take place where the smuggling is most likely to happen? What you're really saying is it's OK to turn a blind eye, but I doubt other nations will. Quote What's to stop them doing that now when there is no border? What would they smuggle now? Everything available on one side is available on the other for a similar price, that most likely won't be the case post Brexit, especially if we're to make a deal with the US There is no border because there is no divergence of standards. It's the divergence that creates the incentive for smugglers. Edited February 2, 2019 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, RJRB said: Nissan invested in the UK to establish a tariff free entry into the EU market. Now faced with a probable 10% tariff ,so how much future investment do you envisage. Since Nissan cars made in Sunderland will fall foul of Country of Origin rules post Brexit, they may end up with extra tarrifs on top as well. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/rules-origin “British firms would be exposed to a combination of administrative and compliance costs linked to rules of origin, ranging (based on existing estimates) from 4 percent to perhaps 15 percent of the cost of goods sold.” Mercedes-Benz we going to make cars there also, then the Brexit vote... oops: https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/mercedes-benz-scrapped-plans-to-build-cars-at-sunderland-s-nissan-plant-after-brexit-vote-report-1-9382752 Lets face it, since most of the factories are specifically to service the EU market, why would any of them stay here? Even with a deal, there's nothing stopping the UK diverging and the whole thing starting up again. Edited February 2, 2019 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, RJRB said: Nissan invested in the UK to establish a tariff free entry into the EU market. Now faced with a probable 10% tariff ,so how much future investment do you envisage. No new models equals job losses. All so predictable and often mentioned on this forum. You can’t keep parroting Project Fear as the reality sets in. Of course ,you voted for Remain😁,but is it wise for any of us to give up the fight when it is so obviously a disaster. Use your democratic right to oppose a No Deal Brexit. Do you think Nissan would have built the Sunderland factory, if they had a partnership like they do now with Renault? Do you believe Brexit is the reason why Jamie Oliver closed a chain of his restaurants? Nothing stays the same for ever and commercial decisions will be made regardless of Brexit. 52 minutes ago, apelike said: I think it has been proposed that we have a UKCE mark for our standards. A sensible proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, Magilla said: What would they smuggle now? There is no border because there is no divergence of standards. It's the divergence that creates the incentive for smugglers. Never mind the smuggling, what about the revenue that we get from the import tariffs, will we need to cut funding to the NHS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said: I understand what BS EN means when I see it in front of numbers. I am not sure how me using 'At least equal' demonstrates anything to you. We both agree we are most likely to keep the same standards which demonstrates to me there is nothing worth worrying about. The decision to leave the EU has already been made. The time to discuss acceptable costs and future benefits of leaving the EU was before the democratic people voted to leave the EU. On Sky News they stated the decision was more based on the move away from diesel cars than anything to do with Brexit and there wouldn't be any job losses as consequence of this decision because they are not manufacturing that model of car in Sunderland. “At least equal” is meaningless. In order to sell into the EU, products must comply with the appropriate European Directive(s) and be CE marked accordingly. An equivalent simply will not do. Currently, as part of the EU, we take part in creating those directives. Once we’ve left we will either comply with these and future directives or we will not export those products into the EU. Over the years there has been a constant media drip drip about how we are being hamstrung by European Directives created by non-elected bureaucrats. Notwithstanding that the system is very similar to that in the UK, (ie civil servants develop ideas at the behest of elected representatives who then vote them into law), the big threat, in my opinion, will be when some UK business wants to relax or abolish those current directives which they consider stop them being competitive. For example... The quality of our river water and coastal waters is achieved because of European Directives (initially the Fresh Water Fish Directive and the Bathing Water Directive, but now under a common Directive). After a no deal brexit, we can look forward to pressure to no longer meet this Directive as it stops our industry being competitive. Even if business fails to get this change, you can bet it will fight tooth and nail to prevent further environmental improvements which the EU may want to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bargepole23 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Lockdoctor said: I understand what BS EN means when I see it in front of numbers. I am not sure how me using 'At least equal' demonstrates anything to you. We both agree we are most likely to keep the same standards which demonstrates to me there is nothing worth worrying about. The decision to leave the EU has already been made. The time to discuss acceptable costs and future benefits of leaving the EU was before the democratic people voted to leave the EU. On Sky News they stated the decision was more based on the move away from diesel cars than anything to do with Brexit and there wouldn't be any job losses as consequence of this decision because they are not manufacturing that model of car in Sunderland. How can the time to discuss acceptable costs and future benefits be a discussion limited to the time before the vote? By that logic, we should accept the costs whatever they are, without limit? That would be a ridiculous position to adopt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Lockdoctor said: I expect our new UK standards to at least equal the EU ones. I expect our Parliament and law makers to ensure there is no lowing of UK standards. Whoa hold up! What about all those small business men and women who voted Leave so that they could be free of red tape and costly EU safety standards? What about their democratic rights? 😡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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