redruby Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Just as not everyone with a disadvantaged childhood ends up on the streets, there are people without childhood trauma and poverty who end up there for other reasons. Less likely, but it happens. Point being that these people have complex and varied issues which are not going to be helped by handing out bits of ‘spare change’. I also don’t oppose the idea of giving addicts drugs, provided it is part of a structured plan of rehabilitation and support to get them out of the cycle of addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaffa1 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 23 hours ago, the_bloke said: It's not though is it. Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have had the misfortune of being abused in childhood, come from broken homes, come from extreme poverty and have lived through some other equally hard and terrible events yet they aren't begging on the Moor and other similar places across the country are they. It's not a green light to become a heroin addict or a street beggar and have people like yourself white knight and treat them as victims of society who shouldn't and cannot take any responsibility for their own problems. Well said. 22 hours ago, Pettytom said: So, why do you think that it happens to some? The weak minded and the gullible. They can't help it , it's how they're made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettytom Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, jaffa1 said: Well said. The weak minded and the gullible. They can't help it , it's how they're made. I’m not sure I’d phrase it like that, but I think I know what you mean. I also asked “what can be done about it”. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaffa1 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pettytom said: I’m not sure I’d phrase it like that, but I think I know what you mean. I also asked “what can be done about it”. What do you think? I wish I had the answer, I know youngsters in this delema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 23:31, Pettytom said: So, why do you think that it happens to some? Do you have a solution for those people? You can only have a solution for people on the street if they want to accept help. Some people don't because the help comes with a caveat that they have to help themselves. Unlike some of the holier than thou on this thread, I've been homeless yet I was never on the street as I accepted the help at every moment it was offered. I was officially homeless for 8 weeks and I know how the system works (at least I did all those years ago). It's hard to be sympathetic to those that bite the hand that keeps trying to feed them then they claim they aren't getting help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattcheese Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 23:45, catmiss said: The statistics you quote are from the annual rough sleepers count undertaken on one night of the year and with very specific criteria. Having helped out on the count some years ago only people lying down ‘preparing for or actually sleeping’ could be counted. If a group of people sitting or laying were talking, even in sleeping bags/under blankets, they couldn’t be counted. The count only covered the city centre thus ignoring a lot of rough sleepers who move slightly out of the centre to avoid attracting unwanted attention. Anyone working with rough sleepers knows the count/statistics are therefore a gross under representation Well......I have many friends who work with the homeless who stand by these figures. Some even claim these figures overstate how many homeless people there are in the city. So, rather than the hearsay and "eye witness" accounts of internet users, who claim to have helped out on a count some years ago, going by the official facts and figures available is preferable I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmiss Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Mattcheese said: Well......I have many friends who work with the homeless who stand by these figures. Some even claim these figures overstate how many homeless people there are in the city. So, rather than the hearsay and "eye witness" accounts of internet users, who claim to have helped out on a count some years ago, going by the official facts and figures available is preferable I feel. Well we all entitled to our own points of view. Some of us are informed by years of work with rough sleeper as well as the, statutory differently defined, homeless ,others by friends’ anecdotes and statistics. The year I took part in the count resulted in Sheffield registering 3 rough sleepers officially-my eyes and my working experience registered this as a gross misrepresentation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattcheese Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 10 hours ago, catmiss said: Well we all entitled to our own points of view. Some of us are informed by years of work with rough sleeper as well as the, statutory differently defined, homeless ,others by friends’ anecdotes and statistics. The year I took part in the count resulted in Sheffield registering 3 rough sleepers officially-my eyes and my working experience registered this as a gross misrepresentation Facts aren't a 'point of view'. My friends and colleagues are also "informed by years of work with rough sleepers" - these are the facts and statistics they operate by. I'm not quite sure when the figures returned "3" as the number of people rough sleeping (certainly more than 10 years ago, as the current records only go back back 10 years and this figure isn't part of them). A bit surreal how you claim people have their view "defined by friends anecdotes and statistics" (the two things are at stark odds!) then offer.....personal anecdotes as to why we should not believe facts and statistics at all. As mentioned before- those I know closely, who are very involved in this line of work, abide by these facts and statistics in their professional operations. Offering an anecdote about something that presumably happened more than 10 years ago really shouldn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 23:45, catmiss said: The statistics you quote are from the annual rough sleepers count undertaken on one night of the year and with very specific criteria. Having helped out on the count some years ago only people lying down ‘preparing for or actually sleeping’ could be counted. If a group of people sitting or laying were talking, even in sleeping bags/under blankets, they couldn’t be counted. The count only covered the city centre thus ignoring a lot of rough sleepers who move slightly out of the centre to avoid attracting unwanted attention. Anyone working with rough sleepers knows the count/statistics are therefore a gross under representation The guidance on counting rough sleepers can be found here. Data is verified as best as it can be by Homeless Link, in order that local authorities produce the most accurate snapshot. Coordinators should be liaising with Homeless Link throughout the process to ensure their estimate is as reliable as possible. https://www.homeless.org.uk/our-work/resources/counts-and-estimates-evaluating-extent-of-rough-sleeping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmiss Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 11:52, Mattcheese said: Facts aren't a 'point of view'. My friends and colleagues are also "informed by years of work with rough sleepers" - these are the facts and statistics they operate by. I'm not quite sure when the figures returned "3" as the number of people rough sleeping (certainly more than 10 years ago, as the current records only go back back 10 years and this figure isn't part of them). A bit surreal how you claim people have their view "defined by friends anecdotes and statistics" (the two things are at stark odds!) then offer.....personal anecdotes as to why we should not believe facts and statistics at all. As mentioned before- those I know closely, who are very involved in this line of work, abide by these facts and statistics in their professional operations. Offering an anecdote about something that presumably happened more than 10 years ago really shouldn't change that. Sorry, but your confidence in official statistics are misplaced and manipulation of the true picture continues as many of my ‘friends and, former colleagues’ will attest. There are a group of people who rough sleep regularly in my area who don’t engage with statutory services and will never appear in the statistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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