Margaret Thatcher Thread - Read the first post before posting

[tinfoilhat]

I presume you've never worked in the private care industry, or perhaps you have. Tell me why you think my comment is tripe.

 

How long do you have ? I've seen good private nursing homes and some I wouldn't put a dog in. I've seen some sub par council care homes and some pretty good council care homes. The thing I've found the main difference to be is the quality of carers, and that's the thing that more often than not that makes the difference - that transcends who owns what and who makes what money. Perversely, the homes that often make the real money are the ones with massive waiting lists. The biggest problem with the elderly is the sheer increase in numbers and that society as whole doesn't have a high opinion of the elderly.

 

I could say that most instances of mistreatment of the elderly happens in Nhs hospitals, and whilst accurate that's not the point. There are more people living longer with more complex illnesses, particularly dementia. Whether its private or public owned is a moot point, it all needs to be paid for. You do, at the very least have a choice on where you spend your final days. Did you get that before thatcher ?

[MrSmith]

Which bits?

 

Wastage of oil/gas revenues? Screwing up the housing market? The flawed utilities sales? Unbalancing the economy? Messing up credit markets? Fostering a culture of selfish individualism? Failing to protect British industry? Messing up the balance of trade?

 

You bang on about consumer debt and the housing market a lot. You need to understand the origins of the problems.

 

I do understand the origins of the problems thanks. Debt was growing well before Mrs Thatcher, our nationalises industries were a joke, people have always been selfish and greedy which is are just human nature, our housing problems were caused by Labour and over population, the utility companies provide a better service now than before privatisation.

[denlin]

I do understand the origins of the problems thanks. Debt was growing well before Mrs Thatcher, our nationalises industries were a joke, people have always been selfish and greedy which is are just human nature, our housing problems were caused by Labour and over population, the utility companies provide a better service now than before privatisation.

 

I take issue with rwo points, people have not always been selfish and greedy. I was born in 1951 and remember how people used to look out for each other, she killed that. Secondly Labour didn't cause the housing problems, she did by selling off council housing and by that also enforcing the I'm alright Jack philosophy and if you seriously think the utility companies provide a better service now you are not living in the same country as me. Our nationalised industries aren't a joke now - we don't have any thanks to her - bu we are the laughing stock of Europe and that started wit Ted Heath

[sheff50]

How can anybody who lives in Sheffield show this horrible old cow any respect ? She destroyed this region don't yer know ? Jesus..........

[MrSmith]

I take issue with rwo points, people have not always been selfish and greedy. I was born in 1951 and remember how people used to look out for each other, she killed that.

So back in the days of the Romans there were no greedy or selfish people, I'm afraid they are both human emotion that we have always had, I'm sure there were also greedy and selfish people in the UK during 1951.

 

Secondly Labour didn't cause the housing problems, she did by selling off council housing and by that also enforcing the I'm alright Jack philosophy and if you seriously think the utility companies provide a better service now you are not living in the same country as me. Our nationalised industries aren't a joke now - we don't have any thanks to her - bu we are the laughing stock of Europe and that started wit Ted Heath

 

Low interest rates, increases in the population, buy to let, lack of house building, and the demolition of thousands of council and private houses all happed during labours time and they are the reason we have high house prices now.

 

---------- Post added 10-04-2013 at 08:03 ----------

 

How can anybody who lives in Sheffield show this horrible old cow any respect ? She destroyed this region don't yer know ? Jesus..........

 

No the bitterness and hatred individuals felt toward her, destroyed the lives of those individuals, many men got on with life, adapted and have a good life now.

[denlin]

How can anybody who lives in Sheffield show this horrible old cow any respect ? She destroyed this region don't yer know ? Jesus..........

 

 

 

I'm with you on that, I remember being stood in a demonstration outside the cathedral in town when she came to the cutlers feast. All the other politicians went in by the front door but she sneaked in the back way, talk about courage of your convictions :hihi: The old bat has still got us at it now she's gone, good riddance

[I1L2T3]

I do understand the origins of the problems thanks. Debt was growing well before Mrs Thatcher, our nationalises industries were a joke, people have always been selfish and greedy which is are just human nature, our housing problems were caused by Labour and over population, the utility companies provide a better service now than before privatisation.

 

It was under Thatcher when personal credit was truly freed up. We are still suffering the problems and still paying for it.

 

Did the industries need to be almost completely destroyed? Or could more have been saved and been modernised?

 

Was appealling to the less savoury aspects of human nature a good thing?

 

Thatcher started the housing crisis by putting public housing stock into private hands. Labour made things worse of course by not replacing them, by allowing personal credit to explode further out of control. But they only built on themes and processes they inherited.

 

Utilities a better service? We pay through the nose for them. We have a looming energy crisis because of a fragmented industry that won't invest. We only need to look at the issues we have with water supply nearly every year to see the issues with under-investment in that industry.

 

Blame Labour all you want too and I'll agree. They bought into the Thatcherite consensus. Tony Blair and new Labour were born out of it. And remember this quote from Mandelson?

 

"We're all Thatcherites now"

 

This is the debate we need to have, about the legacy. And about where we go next.

[denlin]

No the bitterness and hatred individuals felt toward her, destroyed the lives of those individuals, many men got on with life, adapted and have a good life now.

 

And who can blame them, she destroyed whole communities and only the blinkered selfish I'm alright Jacks can seriously think that we have a good life now. We live in a broken Britain with feral children and adults terrorising our streets and a police force ill-equipped to deal with it and even when they do the courts send them on their way with a slap on the wrist.

Edited April 10, 2013 by esme
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[crazybaby]

 

This is the debate we need to have, about the legacy. And about where we go next.

 

Where do we go next ?

The three main parties are all part of the same whole, just split into three to give the illusion of choice, when in fact we have none.

[MrSmith]

It was under Thatcher when personal credit was truly freed up. We are still suffering the problems and still paying for it.

Not her fault that individual couldn't control the own debts.

 

Did the industries need to be almost completely destroyed? Or could more have been saved and been modernised?

I imagine they could have been modernised if the workers and unions had the foresight to work with her instead of against her.

 

 

Was appealling to the less savoury aspects of human nature a good thing?

 

I think the North Koreans would be happy to be given the freedom to choose their own destinies, if they went on to kill each other it wouldn’t be the fault of the person that gave them that freedom.

 

Thatcher started the housing crisis by putting public housing stock into private hands. Labour made things worse of course by not replacing them, by allowing personal credit to explode further out of control. But they only built on themes and processes they inherited.

Actually that made owning a house more affordable and allowed workers that would never have bought an house to own one, she can’t be held responsible for the easy credit, population expansion, buy to let investors, demolition of council housing, lack of house building, that followed under labour. Clearly housing would still be affordable if labour hadn’t encouraged 3,000,000 people to settle here, if they hadn’t demolished thousands of houses, if they hadn’t removed housing from the inflation figures, if they hadn’t lowered interests rates, or if they had build houses to accommodated the population expansion they encouraged, you are just using Thatcher as a scapegoat for labours economic incompetence..

 

Utilities a better service? We pay through the nose for them. We have a looming energy crisis because of a fragmented industry that won't invest. We only need to look at the issues we have with water supply nearly every year to see the issues with under-investment in that industry.

 

Over population and climate change, not really Thatcher’s fault.

Blame Labour all you want too and I'll agree. They bought into the Thatcherite consensus. Tony Blair and new Labour were born out of it. And remember this quote from Mandelson?

 

"We're all Thatcherites now"

 

This is the debate we need to have, about the legacy. And about where we go next.

Still can't blame her for their incompetence.