British Post Office Scandal

[Organgrinder]

1 hour ago, Axe said:

The problem arose because the Post Office has the power to do their own investigations and prosecutions.   The Post Office was formed before the Police Service  and legislation has never been passed to removed their outdated powers.  Criminals should be prosecuted for committing illegal acts. If evidence comes to light later which shows they did not commit the offence, then any conviction should be overturned. It doesn't need a new law to state that the crime was not committed because the justice system can already cater for that. It is an overreaction by the government to pass legislation to clear all the postmasters as one single group.  I would rather the government bring in new legislation to override outdated international treaties  which  prevent illegal economic migrants being removed  from our country than bring in legislation to override hundreds of domestic judicial decisions  in one instance. 

The problem arose because Fujitsu made a cockup of the Horizon system.  Such things have happened before but when they realised,  they decided to lie and do a cover up instead of being honest.

 

As always,  you are in a small minority with your views,   completely opposite to most caring and thinking people,  and destined to be a very disappointed  laddie / lassie  again.

Without meeting them,  I would vouch for each and everyone of them to be more truthful and law abiding,   than your favourite person,  BoJo the chief clown.

There's been a lot of suffering and it will take a lot to make amends and still,  there's much that just cannot be undone  -  it's too late.     People have died in shame remember.

 

Edited January 11 by Organgrinder

[pfifes]

2 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

No, didn't say that at all.  They are of course due their justice. They are going through the process right now.   Is nothing to do with "knowing their place"

 

What I keep trying to demonstrate is that this is not a quick process. There is no instant solution. There's no single head that's going to fall and take all the blame. That is not how it works. 

 

The victim's justice will be from failure of 'the system'.  A complex system which involved multiple corporations, several different governments, several different ministers, the CPS, the court service, accountants and lawyers all potentially being a contribution to the failures leading for the scandal.

 

Quite right the priority focus at the moment is overturning the convictions then it will be a proper justified compensation award which will then be followed by the usual  investigations, lessons learnt, new laws, and regulations to seek to stop it happening again etc....  I am sure for "the public"and the victims that will never be enough.

 

But that is the reality I've been trying to demonstrate free from all the emotive outrage and bluster of the public opinion created by TV drama.

 

Don't remember quite as much public outrage when the scandal first broke and was somberly and dryly reported in the Broadsheets and on Newsnight and Radio 4  but ITV produce a dramatised version years later and suddenly everyone cares....   Fickle the public.  

No not fickle.  The news came in dribs and drabs as information started to come to light.  And the fact is that not everyone follows the news. The drama presented this as a whole and did it so brilliantly that it was relatable and people truly understood the wretchedness of it.  

If you lost your home, your savings, were sent to prison, suffered a mental breakdown as a result of falsely being accused of stealing how much  compensation be enough for you?  Or would just doff your cap and be grateful for any scraps tossed at you and scuttle away back to your place?  I mention people ‘knowing their place’ because you appear to far more sympathy for the top brass than ordinary people that have had their lives wrecked. You seem more concerned about a possible small number of bent postmasters getting compensation they aren’t entitled to than the many postmasters falsely accused getting their convictions quashed.  

 

[Baron99]

So Blair raised concerns about the reliability of the Horizon IT system in 1998, as did one of his advisers. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495

 

Those who persuaded him to run with it, Mandelson, the then Trade & Industry Sec., who raised concerns that cancellation would damage the Govt's relationship with Fujitsu who he stated were a major investor in the UK, (they've probably got their investment money & much more after 25 years?).  Also an advocate of the system was Stephen Byers. 

 

In 1998, Fujitsu close a plant in Sedgefield, Blair's constituency with potential job losses of over 800 workers.  The plant is subsequently bought by another company,  Filtronic, at a knock down price & secured by money supplied by the Dept. of Trade & Industry, headed up then by Stephen Byers who succeeded Mandelson. 

 

"Oh, what a tangled Web we weave..." 

Edited January 12 by Baron99

[Resident]

Things are going from bad to worse with this scandal. 

It turns out that they paid compensation and used it to falsely claim a tax relief

Now it's been discovered they're facing a £100 MILLION tax bill which will sink RM into insolvency.

https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/01/12/934m/

[Axe]

On 11/01/2024 at 19:17, Organgrinder said:

The problem arose because Fujitsu made a cockup of the Horizon system.  Such things have happened before but when they realised,  they decided to lie and do a cover up instead of being honest.

 

As always,  you are in a small minority with your views,   completely opposite to most caring and thinking people,  and destined to be a very disappointed  laddie / lassie  again.

Without meeting them,  I would vouch for each and everyone of them to be more truthful and law abiding,   than your favourite person,  BoJo the chief clown.

There's been a lot of suffering and it will take a lot to make amends and still,  there's much that just cannot be undone  -  it's too late.     People have died in shame remember.

 

Boris Johnson was busy getting Brexit done and handling the pandemic during his time as prime minister.  He did order a public inquiry shorty after the High Court ruling against the post office.

 

26 minutes ago, Resident said:

Things are going from bad to worse with this scandal. 

It turns out that they paid compensation and used it to falsely claim a tax relief

Now it's been discovered they're facing a £100 MILLION tax bill which will sink RM into insolvency.

https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/01/12/934m/

I am surprised that compensation payments are not tax deductible.   If the post office are found to have done wrongdoing regarding this matter then there will be many businesses who also have done wrongdoing.

[El Cid]

55 minutes ago, Resident said:

It turns out that they paid compensation and used it to falsely claim a tax relief

Now it's been discovered they're facing a £100 MILLION tax bill which will sink RM into insolvency.

https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/01/12/934m/

Their share price is slightly up compared to twelve months ago, they have £8 billion worth of assets, they should be performing better but its a Government controlled industry.

 

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/IDS:LON?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAnf-updqDAxXYS0EAHSipDLYQ3ecFegQIZhAf&window=1Y

[Organgrinder]

27 minutes ago, Axe said:

 

I am surprised that compensation payments are not tax deductible.   If the post office are found to have done wrongdoing regarding this matter then there will be many businesses who also have done wrongdoing.

Unfortunately for the Post Office,  and for you,   rules are rules,   and  whether it surprises you or not,  they have to be legally adhered to.

If you definitely know other businesses are  doing the same,  then your citizen's duty is to report them.  This makes no difference to the Post Office problems.

It would appear that there has been much wrongdoing at the Post Office and I hope heads are going to roll and a few cell doors clang shut.

 

[PRESLEY]

46 minutes ago, Axe said:

Boris Johnson was busy getting Brexit done and handling the pandemic during his time as prime minister.  He did order a public inquiry shorty after the High Court ruling against the post office.

 

I am surprised that compensation payments are not tax deductible.   If the post office are found to have done wrongdoing regarding this matter then there will be many businesses who also have done wrongdoing.

You are a complete nutter,  tax on compensation payments, don't you think people have suffered enough,  and whilst you are living in the imaginary Downton Abbey  ont Parkhill next door to Jack Greys van,  I will tell you this!  Hancock and Sunak carried Johnson through the Pandemic. 

[Axe]

25 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Unfortunately for the Post Office,  and for you,   rules are rules,   and  whether it surprises you or not,  they have to be legally adhered to.

If you definitely know other businesses are  doing the same,  then your citizen's duty is to report them.  This makes no difference to the Post Office problems.

It would appear that there has been much wrongdoing at the Post Office and I hope heads are going to roll and a few cell doors clang shut.

 

Quote

Other tax experts told the FT it was not clearcut, with one saying a business “can generally claim tax deductions for expenses incurred that are closely connected with its trade, even if it is a compensation payment”.

 

10 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

You are a complete nutter,  tax on compensation payments, don't you think people have suffered enough,  and whilst you are living in the imaginary Downton Abbey  ont Parkhill next door to Jack Greys van,  I will tell you this!  Hancock and Sunak carried Johnson through the Pandemic. 

You have got the wrong end of the stick again.  We are discussing the Post Office claiming tax back from compensation payouts and not those receiving payouts from the Post Office paying tax on the money.  However it would not surprise me if people receiving large compensation payments that are non injury related are liable to pay tax. 

[PRESLEY]

You said compensation PAYMENTS should be tax deductable. 

Edited January 13 by PRESLEY