Edward Colston Statue Replaced By Protest Figure

[Delbow 707]

47 minutes ago, Jack Grey said:

 

The SWP's ability to print placards and hand them out at demos far outstrips their ability to affect British politics. The reason they print the placards is to give the impression that they have more influence than they do - so you've fallen into that trap in fact. Anyone on the left who wasn't already very suspicious of them ran a mile after they handled an allegation of rape by one of their central committee members really, really badly.

[altus 540]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

As Jack Grey points out, whatever the protest, you'll generally see banners & placards associated with the SWP. 

 

I remember when the schoolchildren were opting to miss school in Sheffield as a protest for environmental concerns.  Amongst all these young children & teens, waving their banners & placards, there they were, people, mainly men 30yrs+,  waving their SWP placards, hoping to do a bit of indoctrination. 

Jack Grey claimed the SWP orchestrated the protest. That's very different to the remaining few SWP members turning up to someone else's protest with their own placards in a desperate attempt to appear still relevant.

[Jack Grey 1,602]

36 minutes ago, Delbow said:

The SWP's ability to print placards and hand them out at demos far outstrips their ability to affect British politics. The reason they print the placards is to give the impression that they have more influence than they do - so you've fallen into that trap in fact. Anyone on the left who wasn't already very suspicious of them ran a mile after they handled an allegation of rape by one of their central committee members really, really badly.

Its because all the activists and lunatics abandoned the SWP to join Corbyn's labour party

 

Their far left lunacy destroyed the labour party and now they refuse to give it back 

 

Starmer is trying to move the party back to the centre but its gonna be a hard task

 

He needs to officially disavow Momentum to send a real message of his intentions

 

But back to my original point.....i believe that these left wing groups used the death of George Floyd to push their narratives like they always do

[Caswall 7]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

Mind you, Minister's actions have been in breach of law - perhaps they 'should be banged up for a suitably punitive period', as deterrent to future ministers behaving like degenerates....

Ministers, Lords, MPs - I believe you will have your wish:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/05/lord-ahmed-found-guilty-trying-rape-young-girl/ 

[Baron99 811]

It's funny.  Before all this, I'd no idea who  Edward Colston was, what he did, what he was responsible for & what he did for Bristol & I'll stick my neck out I state, neither did anyone else on this thread. 

 

So while I could probably write a short biography on Colston, even though I watched the four exonerated individuals outside the court on tv, saw one being interviewed on tv next day & heard another being interviewed on the radio, I can't for the life of me, name any of them. 

 

History isn't always written by the winners then. 

[butlers 261]

I knew about the Colston statue  there's been publicly reported protests about it going going back well over a decade

[Mister M 1,628]

2 hours ago, Caswall said:

Ministers, Lords, MPs - I believe you will have your wish:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/05/lord-ahmed-found-guilty-trying-rape-young-girl/ 

Good, glad he's been found guilty

[Delbow 707]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

That seems reasonable. There was enough evidence to convict the accused at their trial.  I don't agree with the verdict but it should stand and there shouldn't be any re trial.  

I'm in rare agreement. Also, the sentence  "trial by jury is an important guardian of liberty" should never have a "but..." after it. Another warning that this government wants to erode our freedoms.

[cgksheff 44]

On 07/01/2022 at 16:06, West 77 said:

That seems reasonable. There was enough evidence to convict the accused at their trial.  I don't agree with the verdict but it should stand and there shouldn't be any re trial.  

My personal opinion is that they were guilty of the charges.

Any reflection of public mood could have come with lenient sentencing.

[Annie Bynnol 613]

The Law in the UK is always behind the times.

There is no Constitution.

Governments continue to control the Law.

When a local Jury refuses to find individuals guilty they are sending a message that there is something wrong.

The Colston individuals would have received even more publicity and the issues they raised even more notice had they been found guilty- this is the best result for the Government in its aim to quieten down protests about statues, buildings etc.

Those who oppose messing about with statues and building names have 'won' at least a delay in the inevitable change in attitude toward these structures.

 

A historic event in Wales should be a warning to the Government and emphasise the need to be proactive.

Magistrates and Judges had applied zero penalties, or paid the fines of the guilty in  cases involving Welsh Language supporters involved in criminal damage in the 1970's. Even Juries were bringing in 'not guilty' verdicts. Nobody took much notice of the 'cause' until the London Government claimed that the Legal process was being brought into disrepute.

When a Trial in Caernarfon led to a not guilty verdict, the Government insisted the case was retried in another Welsh Crown Court near the English border with what the Government thought a less sympathetic non-Welsh speaking Welsh jury. This Jury felt manipulated and had sympathy- not Guilty.

When the case was retried in England the English Jury returned the verdict the Government wanted they created martyrs who were stupidly sent very briefly to an English jail.

 

The political repercussions in Wales were enormous leading to changes in the Law, end of Tory representation in Parliament and County Councils.

Never again were political trials moved to England as they had been for centuries.

The Welsh language was given equal legal status in Wales.

A whole different attitude towards the Welsh language was created.

Yet there is a limit to what people want, Edwards' castles still stand- at least until the next Investiture.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Annie Bynnol

[Annie Bynnol 613]

11 minutes ago, West 77 said:

A true national reflection of public mood would have resulted in tough sentencing if the jury had found the four guilty.

 

A jury would have heard the evidence presented and challenged.

The majority of the Jury decided that the actions of the four did not amount to 'Criminal Damage'.

The randomly selected jury would have been more representative of actual public opinion in Bristol than your guess at national opinion.

Either way the issue have been raised the public are more aware.

 

Many Cities were keen to emulate the capitals of the world and stick up statues to every Tom, Dick or Harriet they could find.

The 'fashion' of putting up statues has long passed with many (including  Sheffield) put in storage, sheds, parks etc, well away. 

So removing statues is not an attack on heritage, it is a an attack on late Victorian fashion- in this case a statue put nearly 300 years later.

The real place of Colston and others in the history of Bristol and World trade needs to be memorialized appropriately, paid for by the scrap value of of memorials which only tell one part of the story.

 

 

 

[harvey19 541]

1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

A jury would have heard the evidence presented and challenged.

The majority of the Jury decided that the actions of the four did not amount to 'Criminal Damage'.

The randomly selected jury would have been more representative of actual public opinion in Bristol than your guess at national opinion.

Either way the issue have been raised the public are more aware.

 

Many Cities were keen to emulate the capitals of the world and stick up statues to every Tom, Dick or Harriet they could find.

The 'fashion' of putting up statues has long passed with many (including  Sheffield) put in storage, sheds, parks etc, well away. 

So removing statues is not an attack on heritage, it is a an attack on late Victorian fashion- in this case a statue put nearly 300 years later.

The real place of Colston and others in the history of Bristol and World trade needs to be memorialized appropriately, paid for by the scrap value of of memorials which only tell one part of the story.

 

 

 

The people of Bristol still profit from Mr. Colston's funding.

If the population sincerely want to detach themselves from Mr. Colston get rid of the institutions he funded.

I find it strange when it is said the residents voted to have the statue removed and it was not. The only conclusion was that the poll was not representative of the population or the council decided the good he had done for Bristol overrode present views on historical events.

A confusing situation all round including defendants being found not guilty of a crime that was witnessed and evidenced.

Edited January 9, 2022 by harvey19