ampersand Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 There was an interesting article by Matthew Parris in the Times a week or so ago (I can't provide a link for two reasons, firstly I think you have to subscribe to it, and secondly I don't know how to attach links) It's a bit off topic to start with but gets there in the end He was commenting on the speech by Ed Milliband at the Labour conference in which he talked about "good" and "bad" capitalism - the gist of the article was mocking his speech in that it was ill-thought out and too vague a concept. However, Parris (a former Conservative MP) went on to quote Adair Turner, the former Chairman of the CBI and Chairman of the FSA who said (paraphrasing) that capitalism should not be an ethics free zone, some financial activities are less socially useful than others and that the banking crisis was "cooked up in trading rooms where many people received annual bonuses greater than a lifetime's earnings of those now suffering the consequences" and that capitalism should not brush this aside Parris also quoted David Willetts (a Conservative minister) who said that the biggest threat to capitalism is its inherent tendency to undermine the non-market values that a free market society depends upon Parris went on to say that the Great British public doesn't really understand capitalism, and probably wouldn't like it if it did, but they go along with it because (and while) it continues to make them richer - if it stops making them richer, beware. He concluded by saying that, for every protest junkie in a tent yelling "Down with global capitalism", there are a thousand middle income households in Bromley, Bletchley and Barrow looking at the 49% increase in top directors' pay and muttering "it just isn't right" That is the point of the protests - you don't have to agree with their ideologies to see that they have a point - anyone who thinks that the current system is fine and working well for the majority of the UK population seriously needs a reality check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheff50 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 "For a start, you can't irradicate poverty or famine" Why can't you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 "For a start, you can't irradicate poverty or famine" Why can't you ? Poverty is a statistical definition - it used to be people in the lowest 10% of living conditions, and while the boundaries may have changed, it is still measured in the same way, so some people will always be in poverty. Therefore the only way to irradicate it is to redefine it, which I doubt is what the protesters are wanting. Famine will always happen when there are interruptions in the food chain, be them natural or man made. We can take precautions but it can't be irradicated. If the US grain supply was to be interrupted for a couple of years for whatever reason, there would be major food shortages even in such a developed country. Countries which don't have such vast quanties of farmable land, especially those which are also hot and dry are in an even more precarious condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soft ayperth Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 What is not going to happen? That banks will write off 60-70% of the money they are owed to enable them to receive at least something? It happens every day for hundreds of account holders - in the 9 months to the end of September 2011 there were 576 company voluntary arrangements approved and 36,009 individual voluntary arrangements a voluntary arrangement is an agreement between the individual/company and its creditors that (usually) they will make payments from future income over a period of time (often 5 years) at the end of which the creditor writes off any balance owed a typical IVA would return something between 20-50% to the creditors - in other words the creditor writes off 50-80% of the debt Happens hundreds of times everyday Of course it happens everyday. Bankruptcies happen, special deals are arranged, but only on a case by case basis and borne out of necessity. But, to suggest that the banks would or could write off 60-70% of their debts on a widespread comprehensive basis as one of the posters suggested is ridiculous. Unless you happen to be living in la la land. Again, this notion is a throwback to the hippies of the 60s....many of whom are now bankers and company CEOs. Is there a lesson to be learned there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) the banking crisis was "cooked up in trading rooms where many people received annual bonuses greater than a lifetime's earnings of those now suffering the consequences" and that capitalism should not brush this aside He concluded by saying that, for every protest junkie in a tent yelling "Down with global capitalism", there are a thousand middle income households in Bromley, Bletchley and Barrow looking at the 49% increase in top directors' pay and muttering "it just isn't right" That is the point of the protests - you don't have to agree with their ideologies to see that they have a point - anyone who thinks that the current system is fine and working well for the majority of the UK population seriously needs a reality check ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't think Capitalism works well but it works. Socialism does not work at all and it never has. Too many of the protesters are lefties who think punishing bankers and giving the money to them would solve all our problems. Controlled Capitalism could work well but politicians simply do not have the skills or cohones to put in place a system of checks and balances that would deliver steady, sustainable growth. As a country we are in competition with other nations so we have to be careful not to do anything that would disadvantage us globally. And there lies the problem. I am one of the people muttering "it just isn't right" but until someone comes up with a way of dealing with that level of greed nothing is going to change. Sitting in tents in major cities brings the idea of change but nobody has any ideas how to change. Edited November 8, 2011 by Jim Graham Ooops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphonelover Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Excuse my ignorance. Ive seen the tents etc today. What are they protesting about exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxydebs Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Excuse my ignorance. Ive seen the tents etc today. What are they protesting about exactly? Exactly what I wondered. Also how many of them work? If they don't work and are on job seekers, then they are hardly available for work while protesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab6262 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Exactly what I wondered. Also how many of them work? If they don't work and are on job seekers, then they are hardly available for work while protesting. maybe the dept of work & pensions investigators ought to take a trip down there and take a few names take a few pics, it is after all only up the road at steel city house, in fact i know a few that work therem might just suggest it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locket Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 sheffield city centre looks a mess as it is without some tents outside the cathedral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Exactly what I wondered. Also how many of them work? If they don't work and are on job seekers, then they are hardly available for work while protesting. they are working as tent fillers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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