Euro Elections

[apelike 10]

10 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

The Euro Elections are essentially a proxy vote for a second referendum. It's impossible to separate them from Brexit.

To me it seems to be more in the realms of another protest vote by those who want brexit to happen not the other way round, but time will tell. I know many of my friends who voted leave have and will vote for the brexit party even though many like me actually hate Farage. How well they do may just give the politicians a clue as to what to do next with Brexit so holding them may just pay off.

[Pettytom 1]

20 hours ago, nikki-red said:

Can we at least try to stay on topic and not make this thread into another discussion solely about Brexit?

 

Thank you.

The election is solely about Brexit. Once Brexit is done, the election ceases to matter. I can’t see how we can discuss semi-redundant Euro Elections without discussing Brexit.

15 hours ago, apelike said:

To me it seems to be more in the realms of another protest vote by those who want brexit to happen not the other way round, but time will tell. I know many of my friends who voted leave have and will vote for the brexit party even though many like me actually hate Farage. How well they do may just give the politicians a clue as to what to do next with Brexit so holding them may just pay off.

You are correct to say that the Euro Elections will give a steer to the government about how to proceed with Brexit.  

 

How  would you feel if the Greens/Change/ Lib Dems got 52% of the vote?

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pettytom

[nikki-red 308]

6 hours ago, Pettytom said:

The election is solely about Brexit. Once Brexit is done, the election ceases to matter. I can’t see how we can discuss semi-redundant Euro Elections without discussing Brexit.

 

And thats totally fine, as long as the discussion is about the elections as well as Brexit.

What we dont want is another discussion SOLELY about Brexit, a repeat of everything discussed in the main thread, which is where this was starting to head.

[L00b 441]

18 hours ago, apelike said:

Another one who does not remember the past replies by me about this sort of thing, but just to recap... Whatever parliament decides then that is fine by me as they are the ones in charge and not the people. I may/may not like what happens as I personally would prefer a hard brexit and complete divorce from the EU that severs all ties and not the stay in the EU by another route compromise deal brokered by May,  but again that is not for me to decide. If people dont understand how democracy works in the UK then that is their problem and not mine. 

Nice strawman, there. Your replies accepting Parliament's course of action about Brexit (and which I remember perfectly well) have nothing whatsoever to do with your reply to altus' point, on which I picked you up.

 

Want to try again?

[Magilla 510]

14 hours ago, apelike said:

Its amazing how remainers only like democracy when it suits them, and to keep it on topic the same is also true of the EU elections.

The irony, I'm not the one trying to convince themselves that the disaster the're in part responsible for is nothing to do with them by proclaiming it's all parliaments fault!

 

14 hours ago, apelike said:

What people vote for in them is how it is and no matter how many dislike it that is democracy in action. 

Democracy isn't a free pass to absolve yourself of responsibility, no matter how much you try!

[L00b 441]

10 hours ago, Pettytom said:

The election is solely about Brexit. Once Brexit is done, the election ceases to matter. I can’t see how we can discuss semi-redundant Euro Elections without discussing Brexit.

You are correct to say that the Euro Elections will give a steer to the government about how to proceed with Brexit.  

 

How one would you feel if the Greens/Change/ Lib Dems got 52% of the vote?

I agree with your sentiment, but arguably, and realistically, given May's light dusting and re-tabling of her deal mere days after the EU elections (and the obvious political calculation that underpins it), it *really* doesn't matter which political group gets on top come 26 May, nor does its notional influence about a Brexit outcome afterwards : so long as she's in charge at no.10, it's still only ever going to be her way or the highway, and a further mashing of the Conservatives into a purée at the Euro elections isn't going to unseat her, any more than their mashing at the recent Council elections did.

[apelike 10]

4 hours ago, Magilla said:

Democracy isn't a free pass to absolve yourself of responsibility, no matter how much you try!

No. I accept my responsibly as I actually voted and also voted leave which was what parliament gave me the chance to do. Parliament passed the process then proceed to give me a vote, if they did not put down conditions to that vote it is no fault of mine as I have no say in what happens after voting takes place. Now tell that to the many on here who didn't or couldn't be bothered to vote and yet still complain about democracy because the outcome didn't go their way. Are they absolved from responsibility by demanding democracy and yet didnt take part in it?

 

And just to keep it on topic that is exactly the same as voting in the EU elections, they give me a vote and I vote whatever happens after that is not my responsibility but theirs.

 

5 hours ago, L00b said:

Want to try again?

I will when we have left. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by apelike

[Top Cats Hat 10]

I suspect that there will have to be a discussion about the way forward after the €uro elections.

 

It is all very well banging on about how well the Brexit Party will do in these elections but the elephant in the room is that judging by the most recent poll, the Brexit Party and UKIP will end up with 38% of the vote and the others will end up with 54% of the vote.

 

Where does that leave the ‘will of the people’ argument?

 

 

[Magilla 510]

51 minutes ago, apelike said:

No. I accept my responsibly as I actually voted and also voted leave which was what parliament gave me the chance to do. Parliament passed the process then proceed to give me a vote, if they did not put down conditions to that vote it is no fault of mine as I have no say in what happens after voting takes place.

Utter nonsense. The current mess was a forgone conlusion, you voted for it.

 

Quote

Now tell that to the many on here who didn't or couldn't be bothered to vote and yet still complain about democracy because the outcome didn't go their way. Are they absolved from responsibility by demanding democracy and yet didnt take part in it?

More than happy to, doesn't absolve you in any way. At the very least, they weren't weren't gullible/daft enough to fall for a pack of obvious lies!

 

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And just to keep it on topic that is exactly the same as voting in the EU elections, they give me a vote and I vote whatever happens after that is not my responsibility but theirs.

Your vote to gives them the power, you are in-part responsible. You can't claim you didn't know what was going to happen when it was blindingly obvious from the outset.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Magilla

[retep 68]

A few more join the Brexit Party,

"FOUR Welsh assembly members (AMs) have sensationally joined the Brexit Party “with immediate effect” to give Nigel Farage’s party their first political representation at a national level."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1127501/brexit-news-latest-nigel-farage-brexit-party-welsh-assembly-mark-reckless-david-rowlands

[altus 540]

33 minutes ago, retep said:

A few more join the Brexit Party,

"FOUR Welsh assembly members (AMs) have sensationally joined the Brexit Party “with immediate effect” to give Nigel Farage’s party their first political representation at a national level."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1127501/brexit-news-latest-nigel-farage-brexit-party-welsh-assembly-mark-reckless-david-rowlands

Four former UKIP members defecting to the Brexit Party can't really be described as sensational can it?

 

Will there be calls for them to resign and force by-elections by those who called for those who left their parties to form Change UK?

[apelike 10]

2 hours ago, Magilla said:

Utter nonsense. The current mess was a forgone conlusion, you voted for it.

No, I voted leave and the current mess is the making of parliament and the politicians in charge.

 

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More than happy to, doesn't absolve you in any way. At the very least, they weren't weren't gullible/daft enough to fall for a pack of obvious lies!

So you are now evading the question because you dont like it!

 

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Your vote to gives them the power, you are in-part responsible.

My responsibility is the same as anyone else in a representative democracy, I vote and the representatives decide on the outcome. I have no power over what they do and they could have just ignored the outcome despite me voting.

 

Quote

You can't claim you didn't know what was going to happen when it was blindingly obvious from the outset.

Yes I can. Did I know at the time that May would try and deal it away? Did I know at the time that parliament would be this involved and take control? I like many other expected to leave in the sense of what leave means.

 

Just in case you dont understand that, I leave  you with this:

 

 

Leave

verb

1.

go away from.

"she left London on June 6"

synonyms:depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from, take one's leave of, pull out of, quit, be gone from, decamp from, disappear from, abandon, vacate, absent oneself from, evacuate;

Edited May 15, 2019 by apelike