Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[Martin C]

You seem to have confused the words knowledgeable and misinformed gibberish. I was going to take it apart line by line but my rude reply would have been 100 times more voluminous and i didn't want to be late for work.

 

In short, anyone who writes "The idiot Brunel" and expects to be taken seriously when discussing rail transport is on a par with someone who writes "The idiot Baird" when discussing home entertainment.

 

I think most would agree with Annie that Paddington isn't by any means the best located London station.

[alchemist]

I think you're missing the point in that there isn't going to be any new road in the first place.

 

Or indeed railway by the time the government has finished chopping it

[pss60]

You seem to have confused the words knowledgeable and misinformed gibberish. I was going to take it apart line by line but my rude reply would have been 100 times more voluminous and i didn't want to be late for work.

 

In short, anyone who writes "The idiot Brunel" and expects to be taken seriously when discussing rail transport is on a par with someone who writes "The idiot Baird" when discussing home entertainment.

Brunel faced nimbys when building the GWR in his day, just as HS2 faces its opponents today. Were he still alive, he'd recognise the Stop HS2 brigade. Where Paddington is now was the only place where it could be built. Anywhere else faced stiff opposition. Given its original 7 feet gauge with structures built to suit, the Great Western ought to have been one of the easiest lines to electrify.

Edited July 26, 2017 by pss60

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Brunel faced nimbys when building the GWR in his day, just as HS2 faces its opponents today. Were he still alive, he'd recognise the Stop HS2 brigade.

And before Brunel, the same hassle plagued the construction of canals.

[pss60]

And before Brunel, the same hassle plagued the construction of canals.

Exactly. Perhaps even the Romans drew complaints when building their roads as well, so nimbyism isn't new after all.

[Fudbeer]

New Midland Mainline trains will be slower, government says

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40851652?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb%26New+Midland+Mainline+trains+will+be+slower%2C+government+says%26&ns_fee=0#post_5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb

[geared]

Well wouldn't you know, Government caught bending the truth again.

[Annie Bynnol]

New Midland Mainline trains will be slower, government says

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40851652?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb%26New+Midland+Mainline+trains+will+be+slower%2C+government+says%26&ns_fee=0#post_5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb

 

Only half the story. The actual journey times from Sheffield and Derby will be slower very soon. The costs to the operator will also increase and fares will be allowed to increase faster by the government.

Now:

The line from Bedford south will need to accommodate the new express commuter trains which will interfere with the trains from Sheffield again increasing journey times.

Extension of life for the existing and ex GWR forty year old HSTs will slow down all journeys south of East Midlands.

Parkway. Meridan stock need major engineering and cosmetic refurbishment.

In five years time:

 

Not only will are the Bi-mode trains slower-which have not been designed, tested or ordered yet. (Totally different spec. to the GWR version).

The line speed from Kettering/Bedford will be reduced as Bi-modes cannot run at 125 mph under these wires. Likely to be 100 mph.

 

Please:

Read: East Midlands Franchise

Attend: 27 September 2017, 11am to 1pm at the Sheffield Town Hall

Respond: Franchise response.

[1978]

New Midland Mainline trains will be slower, government says

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40851652?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb%26New+Midland+Mainline+trains+will+be+slower%2C+government+says%26&ns_fee=0#post_5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb

 

That's not necessarily true, but......

 

The Spanish have been operating bi-modal trains capable of 160 mph on several of their lines, and they're able to operate on different gauge tracks too. See details of their Class 730; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_730

 

It is true that a bi-modal train will cost a lot more to build than a more simple electric unit. It is much heavier having to carry diesel power units and fuel tanks for the onboard electricity generation equipment. That will impede speed when on the tighter bends on the Midland mainline, and that's the challenge.

 

Using the Spanish experience, that was fatally proved 4 years ago when a driver tried to keep running too fast for too long after leaving the equivalent of an HS2 track to run on old lines that had not been upgraded. The higher centre of gravity and weight of the diesel power units meant they couldn't corner as fast as the lighter passenger carriages, so they came off the tracks dragging the rest of the train with them.

 

The design of our bi-modal trains could possibly allow them to run at high speeds on the existing Great Western, East and West coast mainline sections where they're straighter, so would benefit runs to non-electrified places like Aberdeen, Exeter and Hull. How far they could utilise acceleration and speed on the Midland mainline is down to the design of the trains, and any improvements that can be made to the tracks.

 

If they are to run as electric units for only a short part of their normal journeys it might be better to stay with diesel throughout! However, the news that bi-modal are to be ordered does encourage the thought that more electrification may yet come.

[Annie Bynnol]

That's not necessarily true, but......

 

The Spanish have been operating bi-modal trains capable of 160 mph on several of their lines, and they're able to operate on different gauge tracks too. See details of their Class 730; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_730

 

It is true that a bi-modal train will cost a lot more to build than a more simple electric unit. It is much heavier having to carry diesel power units and fuel tanks for the onboard electricity generation equipment. That will impede speed when on the tighter bends on the Midland mainline, and that's the challenge.

 

Using the Spanish experience, that was fatally proved 4 years ago when a driver tried to keep running too fast for too long after leaving the equivalent of an HS2 track to run on old lines that had not been upgraded. The higher centre of gravity and weight of the diesel power units meant they couldn't corner as fast as the lighter passenger carriages, so they came off the tracks dragging the rest of the train with them.

 

The design of our bi-modal trains could possibly allow them to run at high speeds on the existing Great Western, East and West coast mainline sections where they're straighter, so would benefit runs to non-electrified places like Aberdeen, Exeter and Hull. How far they could utilise acceleration and speed on the Midland mainline is down to the design of the trains, and any improvements that can be made to the tracks.

 

If they are to run as electric units for only a short part of their normal journeys it might be better to stay with diesel throughout! However, the news that bi-modal are to be ordered does encourage the thought that more electrification may yet come.

 

Bi-modal trains can be as fast as you want/afford but are always limited on the MML.

There are no designs for a MML route compatible bi-mode.

Problems include:

1. Heavier than current Meridians.

2. Poorer acceleration than Meridians on most of the route- exasperated by the use of the fast lines by new commuter services south of Kettering/Bedford.

3. Maximum speed between Bedford and London is 100 mph on electric trains. using electric power because of Overhead Line (OHL) limitation and cannot be easily upgraded.

4. Cost significantly more to run and maintain.

5. Cause timetabling problems because of (1-4).

 

They will not be available as a fleet for 5+ years and are not included in this or the next franchise.

Any operator would demand a major fare rise to compensate for extra costs.

 

For what its worth Government policy is not to order more mainline diesels but will be plenty of 40 year old HSTs available from the Great Western route.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Annie Bynnol