George Floyd- Killed By Police

[Litotes]

And what about the other bastions of imperialism, should Chatsworth be pulled down?

What about Churchill's statue in Trafalgar Square?

In fact shouldn't the whole of Bristol be razed to the ground as it was built on the profits of the slave trade?

 

In fact - shouldn't the whole of the UK be nuked because of its past...?

 

Of course not - so where are the boundaries? Who sets them?

 

Mob rule or reasoned discussion wherein all sides can be heard?

 

I think I know what SF members would want if the past is anything to go on...

 

[gamezone07]

Apparently Sadiq Khan has set up a Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm, looking to replace statues of slavers, etc, which for those who know their history is remarkably similarly(if not in purpose) to the Committee of Public Safety during the French Revolution.

 

I think some of what is happening is a positive thing, things like this happened in  Toxteth years ago, though amongst BLM aims is to 'appriopiate white property', but it all may have unexpected consequences: Imo, it was clear the covid19 and its contingencies would lead to radical demands and change, whether that happens is another thing, but very few people would have said it would be around BLM/racial inequality that a mass movement would coalesce, the lynching of GF was a catalyst, but this type of movement was already growing, though the majority being young, may have helped with its depth and intensity. It is great thats it has happened, but when the smoke clears, milllions more, will be unemployed,, capital will push for lower wages, conditions, etc, see British Airways. If a wider social movement doesn't occur, and there are no signs it will and it didn't in 2008, many young people just don't see politics in terms of ecomomic inequality, especially the new left, then we are basically stuffed and of course it will be minorities, disabled and sick(lost 28 billion in benefits and services, lost lives, etc) W/C, many BAME, who will suffer the most. Then, of course there will also be a right wing/populist backlash, which is also happening, its a febrile time and its going to more so,

 

meanwhile, disabled and sick people who have seen 28 billlion taken by the Treasury in benefits and services, and whom many hundreds have taken their own lives, hounded by the DWP, lost benefits are largely invisible, not a fashionable cause.
 

Edited June 9, 2020 by gamezone07

[drolnhoj]

My concern is getting rid of all the statues and the road names and the building names is just sweeping it under the carpet. People need to remember the bad things to learn for the future. Should auschwitz be erased from history? In my opinion no! In my opinion we need to learn so that it can't happen again. 

[despritdan]

The problem with mob rule is that they'll never be satisfied. Once our weak establishment has capitulated to their demands to have 60 statues removed, they'll be demanding that every statue of a white person be removed and replaced with statues of BAME people, then they'll want every street and building named after a white person to be renamed after a BAME person, then every footballer in this country must be black, every TV and radio presenter, every drama must only feature BAME actors, every MP must be black, every mayor and councillor in the country must be black, every white policeman who sees a black person must kneel down and bow to them, then every white person must give all their money to BAME people and finally, white people must be enslaved by black owners so they appreciate what their ancestors had to put up with.

[altus]

13 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

My concern is getting rid of all the statues and the road names and the building names is just sweeping it under the carpet. People need to remember the bad things to learn for the future. Should auschwitz be erased from history? In my opinion no! In my opinion we need to learn so that it can't happen again. 

People need to remember rape and murder is bad but nobody is suggesting putting up a statue of Peter Sutcliffe and naming a few street after him to help people learn about what he did.

 

The plaque on the Colston statue's plinth reads "ERECTED BY CITIZENS OF BRISTOL AS A MEMORIAL OF ONE OF THE MOST VIRTUOUS AND WISE SONS OF THEIR CITY. AD 1895". That can be in no way said to educate anyone about his involvement with the slave trade.

Edited June 9, 2020 by altus

[Michael_W]

9 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

My concern is getting rid of all the statues and the road names and the building names is just sweeping it under the carpet. People need to remember the bad things to learn for the future. Should auschwitz be erased from history? In my opinion no! In my opinion we need to learn so that it can't happen again. 

The removal of statues and renaming streets will do nothing to improve the lives of Black people, it's political posturing and virtue signalling nothing more, what Black people need to empower them, in the long term, is a decent standard of education and better job prospects, the past is history that cannot be changed, good or bad, trying to gloss it over will achieve little or nothing other than annoy those who don't agree with doing so.

As has been mentioned in an earlier post, the coming months are going to be quite testing for many, higher numbers of unemployment could potentially give rise to more divisive political attitudes, they usually do, so while demolishing statues may appease those who think they are part of the problem, in the grand scheme of things they are quite irrelevant IMHO !

[drolnhoj]

1 minute ago, Michael_W said:

The removal of statues and renaming streets will do nothing to improve the lives of Black people, it's political posturing and virtue signalling nothing more, what Black people need to empower them, in the long term, is a decent standard of education and better job prospects, the past is history that cannot be changed, good or bad, trying to gloss it over will achieve little or nothing other than annoy those who don't agree with doing so.

As has been mentioned in an earlier post, the coming months are going to be quite testing for many, higher numbers of unemployment could potentially give rise to more divisive political attitudes, they usually do, so while demolishing statues may appease those who think they are part of the problem, in the grand scheme of things they are quite irrelevant IMHO !

Thanks, I fully agree.

7 minutes ago, altus said:

People need to remember rape and murder is bad but nobody is suggesting putting up a statue of Peter Sutcliffe and naming a few street after him to help people learn about what he did.

 

The plaque on the Colston statue's plinth reads "ERECTED BY CITIZENS OF BRISTOL AS A MEMORIAL OF ONE OF THE MOST VIRTUOUS AND WISE SONS OF THEIR CITY. AD 1895". That can be in no way said to educate anyone about his involvement with the slave trade.

Ridiculous comment. 

[The Joker]

10 minutes ago, despritdan said:

The problem with mob rule is that they'll never be satisfied. Once our weak establishment has capitulated to their demands to have 60 statues removed, they'll be demanding that every statue of a white person be removed and replaced with statues of BAME people, then they'll want every street and building named after a white person to be renamed after a BAME person, then every footballer in this country must be black, every TV and radio presenter, every drama must only feature BAME actors, every MP must be black, every mayor and councillor in the country must be black, every white policeman who sees a black person must kneel down and bow to them, then every white person must give all their money to BAME people and finally, white people must be enslaved by black owners so they appreciate what their ancestors had to put up with.

Yes, it's good thing we have brave white Police officers who can kill nasty black people with impunity, isn't it!

 

 

[altus]

7 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

Ridiculous comment. 

Explain why you think it's ridiculous.

[Litotes]

25 minutes ago, altus said:

People need to remember rape and murder is bad but nobody is suggesting putting up a statue of Peter Sutcliffe and naming a few street after him to help people learn about what he did.

 

The plaque on the Colston statue's plinth reads "ERECTED BY CITIZENS OF BRISTOL AS A MEMORIAL OF ONE OF THE MOST VIRTUOUS AND WISE SONS OF THEIR CITY. AD 1895". That can be in no way said to educate anyone about his involvement with the slave trade.

So the plaque needed changing... as times have changed.

What he did when he did it was accepted - these days it isn't.

What Peter Sutcliffe did, when he did it, was illegal - there is a huge difference between the 2 situations and this spurious argument is irrelevant.