Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[RJRB 688]

4 hours ago, L00b said:

Right wing populism certainly isn't exclusive to the UK.

 

But it is losing ground everywhere across the EU (including very notably in France, Italy, Austria and Poland), except -seemingly- in the UK (edit: and Hungary, for the sake of accuracy).

 

Luxembourg isn't my "spiritual home". It is the country that currently feeds me and mine (like the UK, Ireland, Belgium and others did through the years of my career).

 

But it is a country which recognises, and values, the fact that I, like all other immigrant workers, both permanent residents and daytimers, am a benefit to them (integrating & contributing socio-economically), not a disadvantage: it knows which side of its socio-economic toast is best buttered by attracting the brightest and the best, which it therefore does effortlessly.

 

It is also a country with very long memories, never forgetting that (what would become EU-) economic migrants made its strength (its wealth was originally iron ore pits and steelworks in the country south, being worked by Italians, Poles, Portuguese, French, etc., before it turned to banking when these started going down in the 70s), and going all the way back to the last populist end game, since the Nazi occupation wasn't exactly welcome, nor tender (steelworks and civil service strike leaders were arrested and eventually decapitated in Nazi Germany, and lads of age eventually force-conscripted into the SS and sent on the East Front, like nearby north eastern French).

 

It's a country which still knows where it came from, hasn't forgotten lessons from History, has a worldclass public education system, doesn't drink populist KoolAid by reason of same, and which moreover knows exactly where it's going. It's not the only one in the world like that, I don't think, but it's the most likely to be  benign with my British wife in case of no deal Brexit, so that's why we're there.

I am not criticising you at all for obvious ability to take your skills wherever they are best appreciated at the time.

As far as right wing populism is concerned it is there to some degree in most European countries,but as I stated the big mistake was made by Cameron in letting the true far right to muster support ,not only from those of the same persuasion,but also from the man in the street who swallowed the scare stories on immigration  plus “the send them all back home brigade”

There is a great deal of resentment in all developed European countries towards second and third generation offspring of immigrants.

Their parents were vital at one time to provide non skilled labour,but now many are ghettoised as such labour is no longer required.

Regrettably I fear that other EU27 could follow our path if their leaders were ever to hold a referendum.

Britain is not particularly left or right wing but conniving politicians can at times harness the doubts and fears of the general population for their own ends.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

19 minutes ago, apelike said:

So you are now saying that being threatened by a terrorist organisation should carry weight in any decisions.  Which is worse being bullied or being a terrorist?

Read my post again.

 

It will be the people of the border areas who will tear the infrastructure down, not the IRA. The paramilitaries will only become involved if there is a heavy-handed response by the authorities to those demonstrating just as there was 50 years ago.

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

He has no moral right to govern. And he has no mathematical right to govern, either.

.. and he's not going to win an election on a no-deal ticket, he's not even going to try:

 

Boris Johnson tells Tory MPs if Brexit delayed he would not fight election on no-deal platform

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/09/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-plans-emergency-saturday-sitting-of-parliament-after-eu-summit-live-news

 

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

Tick tock indeed.

Aye.... until leavers have to wipe that egg off their faces....

[apelike 10]

10 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Stop all the moaning and take some responsibility.

I agree parliament and this government should, and that is I think what L00b was alluding to.

[apelike 10]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Read my post again.

I don't need to, if people act that way then they will be inciting terrorism and acting  just as bad as the terrorists that may follow in their footsteps. 

[Pettytom 1]

5 minutes ago, apelike said:

I agree parliament and this government should, and that is I think what L00b was alluding to.

Parliament and this government are just a product of the will of the people. That is to say they are totally split. They are just doing their jobs. Parliament is doing a rather good job of representing the whole electorate.

 

The blame lies elsewhere. Cameron’s calamitous decision. Foreign interference in the referendum. The lies of Banks and his cronies. And, of course, those who voted to leave.

 

They must all take their share of the blame fir this catastrophe.

[apelike 10]

9 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Parliament and this government are just a product of the will of the people. That is to say they are totally split. They are just doing their jobs. Parliament is doing a rather good job of representing the whole electorate.

 

The blame lies elsewhere. Cameron’s calamitous decision. Foreign interference in the referendum. The lies of Banks and his cronies. And, of course, those who voted to leave.

I agree with most of that except the bit in bold, after all it was and advisory referendum and non-binding so they have no responsibility on the outcome or whether in fact it would be implemented and passed into law. They got to vote in an advisory referendum and that is all, the rest then is up to the government and parliament.

Edited October 9, 2019 by apelike

[Top Cats Hat 10]

15 minutes ago, apelike said:

I don't need to, if people act that way then they will be inciting terrorism and acting  just as bad as the terrorists that may follow in their footsteps. 

Really?
 

What if Derbyshire County council decided that anyone travelling between Sheffield and Chesterfield would be subject to random vehicle checks including identity checks on the Yorkshire-Derbyshire border?
 

If the people of Eckington and Staveley who cross that border every day for work and shopping, refused to cooperate and vandalised any checkpoints set up, would you call them terrorists?

[Pettytom 1]

13 minutes ago, apelike said:

I agree with most of that except the bit in bold, after all it was and advisory referendum and non-binding so they have no responsibility on the outcome or whether in fact it would be implemented and passed into law. They got to vote in an advisory referendum and that is all, the rest then is up to the government and parliament.

I already knew that you don’t agree with the last bit. And fair enough we can have a difference of opinion. From my point of view, if people had voted remain, we wouldn’t be in this mess. So the leave voters must take some responsibility.

[Pettytom 1]

6 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Really?
 

What if Derbyshire County council decided that anyone travelling between Sheffield and Chesterfield would be subject to random vehicle checks including identity checks on the Yorkshire-Derbyshire border?
 

If the people of Eckington and Staveley who cross that border every day for work and shopping, refused to cooperate and vandalised any checkpoints set up, would you call them terrorists?

We’re you around during the miners strike?

 

I had to travel from SY into Nottinghamshire every day. My car was stopped and searched regularly. It is not a pleasant experience.

[apelike 10]

16 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Really?
 

What if Derbyshire County council decided that anyone travelling between Sheffield and Chesterfield would be subject to random vehicle checks including identity checks on the Yorkshire-Derbyshire border?
 

If the people of Eckington and Staveley who cross that border every day for work and shopping, refused to cooperate and vandalised any checkpoints set up, would you call them terrorists?

But that is not what is proposed by having border controls in Ireland, wherever they may be put, as those border controls are not needed for people. Border controls are only needed on the importation and exportation of goods, cattle, pharma etc so they comply with EU rules. As said before some people are purposely mixing them up to try and create a problem that does not need to exist.

 

8 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

We’re you around during the miners strike?

 

I had to travel from SY into Nottinghamshire every day. My car was stopped and searched regularly. It is not a pleasant experience.

No as I had left working down't pit and moved back to London for work. In anycase see the bit above.

Edited October 9, 2019 by apelike

[altus 540]

26 minutes ago, apelike said:

I agree with most of that except the bit in bold, after all it was and advisory referendum and non-binding so they have no responsibility on the outcome or whether in fact it would be implemented and passed into law. They got to vote in an advisory referendum and that is all, the rest then is up to the government and parliament.

If those leave voters had accepted it was advisory and non-binding and just left politicians to get on with it rather than spending the last three years pushing them towards an increasingly hard brexit by complaining of a betrayal of the will of the people you might have had a point. As it is, no, leave voters have to accept their share of the blame.