What is equality to you?

[janie48 98]

If the rules say "No Coaching" and she was being coached then what's questionable?

Questionable with regard to whether she was aware she was being coached.

 

In the link I posted it stated that although the TV cameras caught the coach appearing to signal that she play further up the court "there was no suggestion whatsoever that she had seen what he was doing".

[truman 10]

Questionable with regard to whether she was aware she was being coached.

 

In the link I posted it stated that although the TV cameras caught the coach appearing to signal that she play further up the court "there was no suggestion whatsoever that she had seen what he was doing".

 

The intents was there..her coach admitted it afterwards..referee's decision is final... the outburst afterwards was in spoilt brat territory..she should know better really,,

[janie48 98]

The intents was there..her coach admitted it afterwards..referee's decision is final... the outburst afterwards was in spoilt brat territory..she should know better really,,

If we are discussing equality, why should she be expected to know better than her male equivalents who behave in the same way?

[the_bloke 17]

Other players have said far worse. But this thread isn't about whether Williams has behaved badly (which everyone agrees she has), it's about if she's been treated fairly.

 

The umpire has penalised various high profile players over the years - men, not just women - and seems to be one of the few that actually isn't afraid to call a decision. My point still stands; how many decisions has she got away with over the years because of who she is? We shall never know.

 

Considering her opponent was a Japanese woman, I'm fascinated at the calls of racism and sexism against the umpire.

 

She's certainly a bad loser, we know that at least.

[steve68 66]

The umpire has penalised various high profile players over the years - men, not just women - and seems to be one of the few that actually isn't afraid to call a decision. My point still stands; how many decisions has she got away with over the years because of who she is? We shall never know.

 

Considering her opponent was a Japanese woman, I'm fascinated at the calls of racism and sexism against the umpire.

 

She's certainly a bad loser, we know that at least.

 

He's punished Murray, Nadal, Djokovic and Kyrgios maybe he's just very consistent . Also he's only paid $633 for what most would see as a very stressful position. I'm impressed he clearly isn't someone that is fazed by overpaid spoiled superstars Men or Women.

[truman 10]

If we are discussing equality, why should she be expected to know better than her male equivalents who behave in the same way?

 

That's a strawman...no-one has said she should..she/her coach broke the rules.. she got punished for it...male players do get punished for transgressions..

 

"Tournament officials have handed out the second highest recorded financial penalty in Wimbledon’s history, imposing a $15,000 (£11,500) fine on Bernard Tomic for "unsportsmanlike conduct"."

 

"And Daniil Medvedev was handed three individual fines totalling $14,500 (£11,200) - the third highest amount since records began in 1991 - for unsportsmanlike conduct, when he threw coins at the umpire’s chair on Wednesday."

 

"The highest recorded single fine in Wimbledon history remains that given to Fabio Fognini, who plays Murray on Friday.

 

He was fined $20,000 (£11,600 at the time) in 2014 for unsportsmanlike conduct, after he angrily threw his racket on to the grass, and a further £7,500 for shouting at the umpire and unsportsmanlike conduct."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/06/wimbledon-hands-one-biggest-fines-history-tournament-sees-worst/

 

http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/story/_/id/24009907/jack-sock-fined-5000-unsportsmanlike-conduct-wimbledon

 

"Serbia’s Viktor Troicki was also fined £7,500 for a sustained volley of abuse at umpire Damiano Torella during his second-round loss.

 

Troicki grabbed the ball out of a ball boy’s hand and demanded Torella look at it for signs of ‘chalk’. After losing the next point and the match, he continued to harangue the umpire, calling him “the worst ever umpire in the world”.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/57000-in-fines-doled-out-to-players-at-this-years-wimbledon-a3287971.html

[Halibut 12]

That's a strawman...no-one has said she should..she/her coach broke the rules.. she got punished for it...male players do get punished for transgressions..

 

"Tournament officials have handed out the second highest recorded financial penalty in Wimbledon’s history, imposing a $15,000 (£11,500) fine on Bernard Tomic for "unsportsmanlike conduct"."

 

"And Daniil Medvedev was handed three individual fines totalling $14,500 (£11,200) - the third highest amount since records began in 1991 - for unsportsmanlike conduct, when he threw coins at the umpire’s chair on Wednesday."

 

"The highest recorded single fine in Wimbledon history remains that given to Fabio Fognini, who plays Murray on Friday.

 

He was fined $20,000 (£11,600 at the time) in 2014 for unsportsmanlike conduct, after he angrily threw his racket on to the grass, and a further £7,500 for shouting at the umpire and unsportsmanlike conduct."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/06/wimbledon-hands-one-biggest-fines-history-tournament-sees-worst/

 

http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/story/_/id/24009907/jack-sock-fined-5000-unsportsmanlike-conduct-wimbledon

 

"Serbia’s Viktor Troicki was also fined £7,500 for a sustained volley of abuse at umpire Damiano Torella during his second-round loss.

 

Troicki grabbed the ball out of a ball boy’s hand and demanded Torella look at it for signs of ‘chalk’. After losing the next point and the match, he continued to harangue the umpire, calling him “the worst ever umpire in the world”.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/57000-in-fines-doled-out-to-players-at-this-years-wimbledon-a3287971.html

 

That's grand, but to demonstrate that sexism played no part in the decision, surely one would have to look (in great detail) at all of the refereeing decisions made by the official in question and see if there's a differential between decisions for male and female players.

Or, to prove/disprove the claim in a wider sense by making a much wider study of recorded matches and compare decisions.

[truman 10]

That's grand, but to demonstrate that sexism played no part in the decision, surely one would have to look (in great detail) at all of the refereeing decisions made by the official in question and see if there's a differential between decisions for male and female players.

Or, to prove/disprove the claim in a wider sense by making a much wider study of recorded matches and compare decisions.

 

This from 2015 don't know who the specific umpires/referees were..

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon-2015-novak-djokovic-yes-i-communicate-with-boris-but-you-cant-call-it-cheating-10351517.html

 

"In the last five years 24 fines have been issued to male players at Grand Slam events for on-court coaching. Djokovic has been fined twice – at the 2011 Australian Open and 2013 US Open – but both occasions were before Becker joined his coaching team."

 

Can't find reports of women being fined..you can have a go if you want

[leviathan13 350]

That's grand, but to demonstrate that sexism played no part in the decision, surely one would have to look (in great detail) at all of the refereeing decisions made by the official in question and see if there's a differential between decisions for male and female players.

Or, to prove/disprove the claim in a wider sense by making a much wider study of recorded matches and compare decisions.

 

Surely the sexism argument would have come in to it if Williams had been playing a male and he'd treated them differently? Would she have kicked off if the other FEMALE player had been punished in the same way? I doubt it.

[Baron99 811]

Not a tennis fan but read another story about her outburst the other day and also learnt a new word / term into the bargain.

 

Today's new word boys & girls is 'INTERSECTIONALITY'; brought to you by the makers of Sesame Street! Apparently, Serena has been positioned as the voice of it?

 

It's "An analytic framework which attempts to identify how interlocking systems of power impact those who are most marginalized in society.

 

Intersectionality considers that various forms of social stratification, such as class, race, sexual orientation, age, disability and gender, do not exist separately from each other but are interwoven together. While the theory began as an exploration of the oppression of women of color within society, today the analysis is potentially applied to all social categories (including social identities usually seen as dominant when considered independently)." PHEW! Still paying attention at the back?

 

As they say, everyday is a school day.

[leviathan13 350]

Not a tennis fan but read another story about her outburst the other day and also learnt a new word / term into the bargain.

 

Today's new word boys & girls is 'INTERSECTIONALITY'; brought to you by the makers of Sesame Street! Apparently, Serena has been positioned as the voice of it?

 

It's "An analytic framework which attempts to identify how interlocking systems of power impact those who are most marginalized in society.

 

Intersectionality considers that various forms of social stratification, such as class, race, sexual orientation, age, disability and gender, do not exist separately from each other but are interwoven together. While the theory began as an exploration of the oppression of women of color within society, today the analysis is potentially applied to all social categories (including social identities usually seen as dominant when considered independently)." PHEW! Still paying attention at the back?

 

As they say, everyday is a school day.

 

It's basically the hierarchy of who is more oppressed.

 

White heterosexual men are not oppressed at all, so they are right at the bottom. Above this we have white heterosexual women who are a bit oppressed due to being women, but have privilege due to skin colour.

 

Now, this is where it starts to get blurry as I'm not sure whether being LGBTQ+ trumps skin colour or not, but I'm pretty certain a black lesbian will come above a white lesbian as being more oppressed.

 

But, where do trans POC come?

 

And class is often mentioned, but generally that also comes down to gender and skin colour. For example, Williams being a black female still makes her less privileged than a white male in a working class area, according to some on here. Despite her millions of $$$ in the bank.

 

I think even Deep Thought would struggle with this one...

[Cyclone 10]

It gets a bit blurry because it's not a hierarchy but is instead looking at how the different attributes that are related to oppression intersect.