"Police under pressure" bbc tv 9pm 23/6/14

[longleyman]

How do two minarets (which, if your dad lived in Heeley, could have been no nearer than across the street) prevent your father from seeing his own garden? They didn't build them on his garden, FGS... Unless the minarets bricked up the window of some random house that we weren't told about, you're talking total lies and rubbish.

 

I ought to start moaning about the newly built extension from the old folks home round the corner from me. It's round the corner and up the hill from me, but hey, I'm sure that they can see through the wall and through the trees into my house, invading my privacy!!

 

For two years we regularly heard the calls to prayer from a Mosque, and we got used to it. Mind you, this was a distance away from our tents and we had to get used to it because we were in Egypt. At that time, I never imagined that in the future there would be so many Mosques to be built in England.

Edited June 25, 2014 by longleyman

[firesmudge]

My opinion for what its worth about the issues in the program are as follows. There seems to be issues about social deprevation lack of parental control and ethinic tensions. We need to look at how we raise our kids and the values they hold we also need to look at our immigration policies and how the lack of intergration of new communites affect the native population.

Before anyone screams racist or social biggot I am a realist our culture is rotten with the lack of control or respect young people have for others and the fact that our diverse communities are at times very insular and not inter grated due to religious or cultural beliefs raises tensions.

The destruction of public services due to budget constraints affects us all central goverment have a total dislike for public services and are willing to destroy communities and then wonder why folk are not happy at the lack of police or fire cover and things are getting out of hand.

[Daven]

A lot was mentioned on the programme about cuts to the police force - less police = less arrests = better crime figures???

 

Having said that the police can drum up 1000 officers for an EDL march but only a handful to sort out Page Hall.

 

Except that the EDL march was a planned event and was almost entirely staffed by police from other areas as far afield as Liverpool on paid overtime.

The 'handful to sort out Page Hall' are the real numbers of police available.

With Police cuts on the horizon I say be afraid - be very afraid.

 

---------- Post added 25-06-2014 at 11:57 ----------

 

if the police try to be nice they are "too soft". if they try to be tough they are accused of being "too heavy handed" whatever they do it will be wrong in some people's eyes!

 

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Those of you on here criticising the police should walk in their shoes for just one day.

It's not a perfect service but one we should appreciate more.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Daven

[kestrel]

It's a shame that a sensible debate about policing can't be had without it descending into an embarrassing display of racism. I've worked in communities all over the north including some really deprived areas in Leeds, Bradford, Donny etc.. BY FAR my least favorite place to visit was Parson's Cross.

 

There are issues with youths in other areas, in areas with high immigration it's often a problem that the older generation might not speak English/be that involved in the community which allows their kids to go off and be scumbags without them really realizing, in all of these situations once the parents find out about what their kids have been up to they are embarrassed, ashamed and want to do something about it.

 

In Parson's Cross most of the parents are completely aware of what their kids are up to and they couldn't give a toss. These are white families who have had generation after generation of opportunity, of free health care, of one of the best education systems in the world. These aren't people who had to move to this country to escape some brutal warzone, these are people who's sum total of their entire ancestry living in one of the world's most affluent countries is to be sat on their front gardens drinking cans of special brew and moaning about immigrants while their kids ratbag around the streets.

 

The answer isn't to resort to 'American style policing' ( have any of the clueless people who suggested that ever actually seen the levels of crime in American inner cities?!?!?! Trust me it's less 'kicking footballs at windows' and more 'dozens of murders a week' all American heavy handed policing has led to is total distrust of the police in some areas and an 'us vs them' attitude.

 

The issue for me is the fact that whenever anything goes wrong in this country we all look for someone to blame. The recession was caused by bankers not by my 10 credit cards, 100% mortgage and brand new beamer i got on credit even though it's worth about half my annual wage. Those people in Parson's cross will no doubt blame their problems on immigrants (if they don't work), 'scroungers' (if they do work) or if not probably just the government. If your community is awful, if your kids are running riot and if your neighborhood is on national tv for being full of scumbags then it is YOUR fault, nobody elses.

[rossyrooney]

It's a shame that a sensible debate about policing can't be had without it descending into an embarrassing display of racism. I've worked in communities all over the north including some really deprived areas in Leeds, Bradford, Donny etc.. BY FAR my least favorite place to visit was Parson's Cross.

 

There are issues with youths in other areas, in areas with high immigration it's often a problem that the older generation might not speak English/be that involved in the community which allows their kids to go off and be scumbags without them really realizing, in all of these situations once the parents find out about what their kids have been up to they are embarrassed, ashamed and want to do something about it.

 

In Parson's Cross most of the parents are completely aware of what their kids are up to and they couldn't give a toss. These are white families who have had generation after generation of opportunity, of free health care, of one of the best education systems in the world. These aren't people who had to move to this country to escape some brutal warzone, these are people who's sum total of their entire ancestry living in one of the world's most affluent countries is to be sat on their front gardens drinking cans of special brew and moaning about immigrants while their kids ratbag around the streets.

 

The answer isn't to resort to 'American style policing' ( have any of the clueless people who suggested that ever actually seen the levels of crime in American inner cities?!?!?! Trust me it's less 'kicking footballs at windows' and more 'dozens of murders a week' all American heavy handed policing has led to is total distrust of the police in some areas and an 'us vs them' attitude.

 

The issue for me is the fact that whenever anything goes wrong in this country we all look for someone to blame. The recession was caused by bankers not by my 10 credit cards, 100% mortgage and brand new beamer i got on credit even though it's worth about half my annual wage. Those people in Parson's cross will no doubt blame their problems on immigrants (if they don't work), 'scroungers' (if they do work) or if not probably just the government. If your community is awful, if your kids are running riot and if your neighborhood is on national tv for being full of scumbags then it is YOUR fault, nobody elses.

 

You criticise the level of discussion saying it is one sided and then proceed to slate Parson Cross parenting, their abuse of the welfare system and denounce them as racists.

 

Hardly discussing a possible solution is it?

[kestrel]

You criticise the level of discussion saying it is one sided and then proceed to slate Parson Cross parenting, their abuse of the welfare system and denounce them as racists.

 

Hardly discussing a possible solution is it?

 

Haha true, I'll give you that! I went in on my high horse and then immediately descended to the same level. My main criticism of the level of discussion was around posts of the ilk of 'I've seen Asian kids throwing their takeaway boxes on the floor' etc..... What I'm really trying to say is that all these people criticizing the Roma etc need to look in their own back yard. The Roma have been persecuted, harassed and generally treated like crap for literally centuries and they still aren't as bad as these kids in the cross who have every opportunity to live a decent honest life. I just think it shows that race doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not you act like a complete twit.

[top4718]

It's a shame that a sensible debate about policing can't be had without it descending into an embarrassing display of racism. I've worked in communities all over the north including some really deprived areas in Leeds, Bradford, Donny etc.. BY FAR my least favorite place to visit was Parson's Cross.

 

There are issues with youths in other areas, in areas with high immigration it's often a problem that the older generation might not speak English/be that involved in the community which allows their kids to go off and be scumbags without them really realizing, in all of these situations once the parents find out about what their kids have been up to they are embarrassed, ashamed and want to do something about it.

 

In Parson's Cross most of the parents are completely aware of what their kids are up to and they couldn't give a toss. These are white families who have had generation after generation of opportunity, of free health care, of one of the best education systems in the world. These aren't people who had to move to this country to escape some brutal warzone, these are people who's sum total of their entire ancestry living in one of the world's most affluent countries is to be sat on their front gardens drinking cans of special brew and moaning about immigrants while their kids ratbag around the streets.

 

The answer isn't to resort to 'American style policing' ( have any of the clueless people who suggested that ever actually seen the levels of crime in American inner cities?!?!?! Trust me it's less 'kicking footballs at windows' and more 'dozens of murders a week' all American heavy handed policing has led to is total distrust of the police in some areas and an 'us vs them' attitude.

 

The issue for me is the fact that whenever anything goes wrong in this country we all look for someone to blame. The recession was caused by bankers not by my 10 credit cards, 100% mortgage and brand new beamer i got on credit even though it's worth about half my annual wage. Those people in Parson's cross will no doubt blame their problems on immigrants (if they don't work), 'scroungers' (if they do work) or if not probably just the government. If your community is awful, if your kids are running riot and if your neighborhood is on national tv for being full of scumbags then it is YOUR fault, nobody elses.

 

I take your point but if the jolly immigrants who are here (I think your point that they have all escaped war zones is very naive) were not here the police would be able to devote more time to areas like Parsons Cross, also don't label everyone who opposes mass immigration as a racist, being against a mass influx of people to an already over crowded island is sensible, not racist.

[wassamadda1]

My points in brackets 1-4

 

(1) The standard of the cop's (as you put it) is a reflection of what is practical in the circumstances and prevalent at the time. Offences committed, numbers of Police present, backup and camera crews all effected the way the Officers dealt with the problem. Over and above these "said laws" (which laws are you thinking of?) are one thing but the ability to enforce any law is dependent upon the ability to arrest and process without getting your head kicked in AND not starting a sequence of events that leads to massive law breaking i.e. losing the offender and/or a riot.

(2) They have a good deal of intelligence, and courage, to try to do the job in the face of these odds. They do not have the capability, support and back up, to do the job.

(3) The message to the wrong do'er is to fill the streets and overwhelm the Police.

(4) I do fear for the Police and most of all for the communities.

 

Finally, whilst the harassed Inspectors people on the ground are overwhelmed. Where is the dynamic, achievable, direction that should be given by the senior people. If they cannot achieve what we all want, then they should tell the Public what they can achieve and then achieve it!

If it is there the BBC should show it.

If it isn't, why not?

 

Enough questions - What are your answers?

 

(1) The presence of cameras should not stop an Officer arresting a twonk. If that's the case, why allow the cameras in? It's a complete nonsense to suggest other factors stopped these idiots being arrested. They weren't arrested because of complete incompetence. The wasn't a camera crew at Abbeydale Rd earlier this year when the Police stated, once again, they "couldn't do anything".

"We can't do anything, blah, blah..." is garbage. What about Breach of the Peace/Sec 5 Public Order Act/ Sec 4 Public Order Act/ Assault on customers who were pulled out of the take away by idiots, etc, etc.

Clearly, two cops would struggle to arrest ten people (there was only five at the shop) but what happened to making an example of one or two of them.

It's also a nonsense to suggest that arresting two idiots will cause a riot.

 

(2) You agree with me. They aren't capable.

 

(3) If that's the message, it's because of a lack of capability, etc.

 

(4) I agree.

 

Finally, there is far too much money spent on so called Supervisors at Chief Inspector and above who make no difference to our life/security. Get rid of some of that lot and spend it on employing decent front line cops.

[truman]

(1) The presence of cameras should not stop an Officer arresting a twonk. If that's the case, why allow the cameras in? It's a complete nonsense to suggest other factors stopped these idiots being arrested. They weren't arrested because of complete incompetence. The wasn't a camera crew at Abbeydale Rd earlier this year when the Police stated, once again, they "couldn't do anything".

"We can't do anything, blah, blah..." is garbage. What about Breach of the Peace/Sec 5 Public Order Act/ Sec 4 Public Order Act/ Assault on customers who were pulled out of the take away by idiots, etc, etc.

Clearly, two cops would struggle to arrest ten people (there was only five at the shop) but what happened to making an example of one or two of them.

It's also a nonsense to suggest that arresting two idiots will cause a riot.

 

(2) You agree with me. They aren't capable.

 

(3) If that's the message, it's because of a lack of capability, etc.

 

(4) I agree.

 

Finally, there is far too much money spent on so called Supervisors at Chief Inspector and above who make no difference to our life/security. Get rid of some of that lot and spend it on employing decent front line cops.

 

I assume your application will be at the top of the pile when they do this?

[rossyrooney]

I found the most distasteful part of the documentary to be the ineptness of the police in dealing with the youths that were making life a misery for the takeaway owner, his staff and his customers.

This is a man who is providing a service, working for a living, paying taxes and rates and employing staff.

In no way can he be accused of scrounging or failing to integrate, but his life must be misery.