Linux.. A Toy For Geeks

[julado 10]

And best Linux analogy of the year award goes to...

 

Presumably that copy of Ubuntu was at least 2 versions old as they don't use ALSA any more. Next time your PC needs it's bi-yearly Windows clean up get the resident geek to stick the latest version of Ubuntu on, the worst thing you'll have to do with that for what you need is find how to un-mute the microphone channel.

 

Apparently it is the latest version...the one released to co-incide with Windows 7 release.

 

I was just grasping at straws when I came across the ALSA thing...and run with it as it seemed to be the problem....are you telling me now it isn't *stands in corner with dunce hat on my head*.

 

I love my resident geek

[steev 10]

Apparently it is the latest version...the one released to co-incide with Windows 7 release.

 

I was just grasping at straws when I came across the ALSA thing...and run with it as it seemed to be the problem....are you telling me now it isn't *stands in corner with dunce hat on my head*.

 

I love my resident geek

 

Oh, then it may not be the ALSA problem, the latest version uses Pulse Audio, though other than installing it & using it I haven't touched any Pulse Audio settings as it seems to just work for me (including the microphone).

 

I assume you have (or did as you're back on XP now) check the volume controls? The microphone is muted by default.

 

I know that *some* ALSA stuff is installed on Karmic (the latest release), but I assumed it was just there to deal with any legacy applications that couldn't work with Pulse.

[RyoHazuki 10]

I haven't actually read most of this thread....but would like to add something.

 

I am a 53 year old female technophobe and proud of it...but my partner mikeybaby72 is complete in love with Linux....Puppy especially.

 

He has installed a few different distros.....Puppy, Mandriva and now Ubuntu...on my machine....however.....

 

whilst I love the open source....and the fact that I am not paying Gates to use them I have an observation.

 

Now I know nothing about operating systems....I just want something pretty that can run the stuff I want to run....which believe me is extremely limited.

 

So in a bid to improve my geek status I decided to install Skype on the Ubuntu....and then encountered a problem....no mic....so I did a bit of problem shooting to see if I could sort it.....but no!!!

 

There is a bug on the ALSA which needed a fix...and to do this I would have to find a file and add a bit of code on the end....now you think I understand this....because I don't

 

I tried to equate it to mikeybaby72 thus......using Linux is like buying flat pack furniture....you have to assemble it yourself....and if you are missing a bag of screws (in the Ubuntu case the mic) then the article is useless. Well at least I know what happened to MFI - they joined force with Linux

 

So I am back using Windows.....thing is if I want a clean pair of socks I just go to the drawer I don't want to have to get the needles and wool out and knit them myself.

 

The sad part about all this is that I would love to use Linux.....the ethos alone is to be applauded and wins hands down over Gates....but for the inexperienced like me then Windows as a complete package wins because not all of us have the necessary expertise to run Linux

 

You never know one day I may get to be a geek...just have to persuade mikeybaby72 to add the bit of missing code

 

Great post Julado! My missus is no geek at all either, but I set up Ubuntu on her laptop because she didn't want Windows on it. I don't class myself as a geek either, though people do if you use Linux. I don't understand why. I'm just a regular home PC user.

 

Yes you may have to Google a little to find a fix for something or whatever. To me, when I started out with Linux, this was preferable to the security nightmare of Windows, where you'd end up Googling for help anyway when you had to remove a virus. I figured, at least this way I'm learning something new, and the system is more secure on the net.

 

I don't really think the flat pack analogy is accurate ultimately. I think when you install any OS from scratch (which is where I think the problems stem from for most), there's a bit of fixing and tweaking to get things running how you want. I installed XP afresh recently, and that was more complicated than installing Linux altogether, since I had to get all my drivers manually and disc swap for a couple of hours to get it going. Add the codecs for video and MP3 playback and whatnot, and it's a day of tweaking to get Windows going, compared to an hour for a Linux. Wouldn't it be better if it came pre-installed like Windows already set up for the end user? It'd be a fairer comparison for sure.

 

The socks analogy is a good one too, but again not really true. You don't have to be a coder to run Linux, but yes you will have to learn a new system. I found though, after a while, it became second nature to use it. I always say people aren't born with the skills to run Windows. You had to learn them. This admittedly is a stumbling block for Linux, since like you, many just don't really want to learn a new OS. But if you do have an open mind, you'll figure out it's ways in time, just like you have with Windows over the years.

 

As for audio problems on the latest Ubuntu, well I'm having those too. ALSA is in there as always, but the culprit is Pulse Audio, which is norking up my sound on a few apps and I'm not happy. I've switched to Mandriva mostly now, where I've disabled Pulse Audio and everything is great. Could be worth a shot for you. After starting off well, the latest Ubuntu has begun to annoy me with sound bugs, and I've stopped recommending it to others till the next release. Disappointing. Luckily there's others to choose from.

[julado 10]

Great post Julado! My missus is no geek at all either, but I set up Ubuntu on her laptop because she didn't want Windows on it. I don't class myself as a geek either, though people do if you use Linux. I don't understand why. I'm just a regular home PC user.

 

I don't really think the flat pack analogy is accurate ultimately. Wouldn't it be better if it came pre-installed like Windows already set up for the end user? It'd be a fairer comparison for sure.

 

The socks analogy is a good one too, but again not really true.This admittedly is a stumbling block for Linux, since like you, many just don't really want to learn a new OS. But if you do have an open mind, you'll figure out it's ways in time, just like you have with Windows over the years.

 

As for audio problems on the latest Ubuntu, well I'm having those too. ALSA is in there as always, but the culprit is Pulse Audio, which is norking up my sound on a few apps and I'm not happy. I've switched to Mandriva mostly now, where I've disabled Pulse Audio and everything is great. Could be worth a shot for you. After starting off well, the latest Ubuntu has begun to annoy me with sound bugs, and I've stopped recommending it to others till the next release. Disappointing. Luckily there's others to choose from.

 

The flat-pack and socks analogies were my attempt at wit and irony

 

And yes....just how brilliant would it be if Linux was an option and came pre-installed with all the tweaking just about done and it could run all the things that we currently now "enjoy" about Windows.

 

Thank you for crediting me with the understanding of Windows....misplaced however I fear....I haven't got a clue with that either.

 

My computer knows MY rules....burn, re-boot and now dual boot have two meanings....and my computer either complies or it doesn't. Being threatened with either petrol and a match or my size 7 Dockers seems to make it understand completely

 

Love your avatar by the way

[the_bloke 17]

Didn't realise this thread was still going.

 

I think the post a few above mine sums it perfectly; in my experience, Linux really is like furniture you have to put together yourself.

 

I am by no means computer illiterate, but when I installed the latest version of Ubuntu I was presented with a problem of epic proprtions that had me scratching my head for a while.

 

For some reason, unknown, both the Ubuntu installer and the Live CD decided that running a section of the installation/configuration routine in a resolution my monitor wouldn't support (a bog standard 19 inch LCD on the PC in question, driven by a AGP era NVidia graphics card).

 

The result? A blank screen and the OSD on my screen telling me it was an unsupported mode.

 

The fix? After trawling through lots of forums, discovering that the suggestion of changing the parameters of the installer didn't work etc etc.. was to install it using my other monitor, which could handle the huge resolution.

 

I sat there thinking about this as it merrily installed.. if this had happened with a computer newbie, this could have been the end. The disc would have come out, gone in the bin, and the Windows CD slotted back into the CD drive, the air would have been blue and Linux would be forever declared as rubbish.

 

Reading through lots of forums, I unearthed posts where people had similar problems installing Koala, and their level of answers ranged from the helpful (try changing the install parameters) to the arrogant (well, your hardware must be wrong).

 

Coming from a software QA background, I know for a fact that you design your software to handle the lowest denominator when it comes to computer hardware. For example, you don't design your application to only look good in 1600x1200 for example, as you can be sure someone out there in some back office will still be working on 1024x768.

 

One of the most important things in software is making sure your application will install - it needs to be bomb proof. You can't test it on hundreds of different permutations of computers but you at least make it so it will install with the minimum of risk. If you look at Windows installing, even under Vista/Windows 7 it doesn't go beyond 1024x768. Older versions of Windows would install at 800x600 or even 640x480, to account for the lowest denominators in the userbase.

 

I only assume, that in my scenario, either the installation program is bugged on my hardware and doesn't understand what it is and tries to run it at the highest resolution the video card says it can display, or a developer has made the concious decision to run the installer at a high resolution for whatever reason. Why isn't the installer hard coded to be at a certain resolution? Why more? Who knows.

 

For me though, this just summed it up. Yes, once it is up an running, it works well, there is no denying that. But if you want to step off the beaten path a little, the same things that annoyed me about Linux 10 years ago are still apparent. Having to write scripts, download Python from the repository, configure something to do something else, compile and run some more scripts.. things that the Linux savvy might be happy doing, but to a new computer user? No.

 

Reading through Help forums for Ubuntu reminded me of a computer magazine from the mid 1980s, where to get anything constructive done you could copy the 1500 lines of code from the magazine, run it and hey presto, a neat utility to reverse sort your address book.

 

So, to answer the original post; is it a toy for geeks? Less so than previously, but IMO it still isn't as user friendly or as polished as it needs to be to compete with Windows or Mac. It always has that DIY aspect - and no matter what die hard Linux fans may think, a large proportion of computer users don't want that.

 

I junked it anyway; I don't like dual booting, and it still doesn't run the applications I need to use at home. In this case, it was Ventrillo that had me over a barrel, and I can't see that ever changing as the developers have said they will never allow a Linux port.

 

Ah well. I'll try again with Ubuntu 10

[julado 10]

Didn't realise this thread was still going.

 

I think the post a few above mine sums it perfectly; in my experience, Linux really is like furniture you have to put together yourself.

 

I am by no means computer illiterate, but when I installed the latest version of Ubuntu I was presented with a problem of epic proprtions that had me scratching my head for a while.

 

For some reason, unknown, both the Ubuntu installer and the Live CD decided that running a section of the installation/configuration routine in a resolution my monitor wouldn't support (a bog standard 19 inch LCD on the PC in question, driven by a AGP era NVidia graphics card).

 

The result? A blank screen and the OSD on my screen telling me it was an unsupported mode.

 

The fix? After trawling through lots of forums, discovering that the suggestion of changing the parameters of the installer didn't work etc etc.. was to install it using my other monitor, which could handle the huge resolution.

 

I sat there thinking about this as it merrily installed.. if this had happened with a computer newbie, this could have been the end. The disc would have come out, gone in the bin, and the Windows CD slotted back into the CD drive, the air would have been blue and Linux would be forever declared as rubbish.

 

Reading through lots of forums, I unearthed posts where people had similar problems installing Koala, and their level of answers ranged from the helpful (try changing the install parameters) to the arrogant (well, your hardware must be wrong).

 

Coming from a software QA background, I know for a fact that you design your software to handle the lowest denominator when it comes to computer hardware. For example, you don't design your application to only look good in 1600x1200 for example, as you can be sure someone out there in some back office will still be working on 1024x768.

 

One of the most important things in software is making sure your application will install - it needs to be bomb proof. You can't test it on hundreds of different permutations of computers but you at least make it so it will install with the minimum of risk. If you look at Windows installing, even under Vista/Windows 7 it doesn't go beyond 1024x768. Older versions of Windows would install at 800x600 or even 640x480, to account for the lowest denominators in the userbase.

 

I only assume, that in my scenario, either the installation program is bugged on my hardware and doesn't understand what it is and tries to run it at the highest resolution the video card says it can display, or a developer has made the concious decision to run the installer at a high resolution for whatever reason. Why isn't the installer hard coded to be at a certain resolution? Why more? Who knows.

 

For me though, this just summed it up. Yes, once it is up an running, it works well, there is no denying that. But if you want to step off the beaten path a little, the same things that annoyed me about Linux 10 years ago are still apparent. Having to write scripts, download Python from the repository, configure something to do something else, compile and run some more scripts.. things that the Linux savvy might be happy doing, but to a new computer user? No.

 

Reading through Help forums for Ubuntu reminded me of a computer magazine from the mid 1980s, where to get anything constructive done you could copy the 1500 lines of code from the magazine, run it and hey presto, a neat utility to reverse sort your address book.

 

So, to answer the original post; is it a toy for geeks? Less so than previously, but IMO it still isn't as user friendly or as polished as it needs to be to compete with Windows or Mac. It always has that DIY aspect - and no matter what die hard Linux fans may think, a large proportion of computer users don't want that.

 

I junked it anyway; I don't like dual booting, and it still doesn't run the applications I need to use at home. In this case, it was Ventrillo that had me over a barrel, and I can't see that ever changing as the developers have said they will never allow a Linux port.

 

Ah well. I'll try again with Ubuntu 10

 

I like you

[RyoHazuki 10]

I'm sorry people have had trouble running it, or simply just don't like it, but I can honestly say it's just not been the case for me. I have been using Linux now for a few years, and it's been extremely positive and easy to use. I've installed it across all sorts of different PC's, from desktops to laptop and netbooks, and all sorts of different versions, and it's been fantastic. I think if I'd hit the snags that the poster above describes, then I too would have given up. What else could you do? But for me I've been thrilled to bits with it, and much prefer it to Windows now, but for the gaming.

 

I always say though, don't just try Ubuntu and give up if that doesn't work. There's so much to choose from, and yes they do vary. My current fave is Mandriva 2010. It's really lovely, and easy to use. Give it a go. More to Linux than Ubuntu.

[julado 10]

I'm sorry people have had trouble running it, or simply just don't like it, but I can honestly say it's just not been the case for me. I have been using Linux now for a few years, and it's been extremely positive and easy to use. I've installed it across all sorts of different PC's, from desktops to laptop and netbooks, and all sorts of different versions, and it's been fantastic. I think if I'd hit the snags that the poster above describes, then I too would have given up. What else could you do? But for me I've been thrilled to bits with it, and much prefer it to Windows now, but for the gaming.

 

I always say though, don't just try Ubuntu and give up if that doesn't work. There's so much to choose from, and yes they do vary. My current fave is Mandriva 2010. It's really lovely, and easy to use. Give it a go. More to Linux than Ubuntu.

 

This is my first dalliance with Ubuntu....and if the probs could be ironed out it would be great....mikeybaby72 (my own resident geek ) is going to install a previous version of Ubuntu for me. The Ubuntu at the moment is running inside Windows. mb72 has created a seperate partition for Linux and he has shown me quite a few distros....of Puppy (which is a bit too basic for my liking) of Mandriva (which I liked but had flash problems with and it wouldn't play my facebook games) and now Ubuntu.....I might ask him to try Kubuntu.....he prefers KDE to Gnome - see the geekness IS rubbing off....I am beginning to be able to talk the lingo

 

What I think is the absolute beauty of Linux is that you can carry a whole O/S on a stick....mb72 has Pupitup on a pendrive and it means he can go onto ANY PC, stick in the pendrive....and boot up from that....and all his files and stuff is downloaded back onto the pendrive....leaving no trace that he has ever been on the host machine. Now THAT is the beauty.

 

Also he has rescued both his and my computer when Windows has had a major meltdown. Where Windows only sees Windows files.....Linux can read anything and can open files in Windows which makes it a good repair tool....and that cannot be faulted.

 

Now if I could find a Linux distro that is attractive....easy to use.....is compatible with WINE....so my Windows stuff works on it....and is easy enought that I could fiddle with it without causing much damage then I would give it a go again.

 

I might make geekdom yet

[swarfendor437 14]

I think it is probably deemed to be a toy for Geeks because it is not mainstream (6% of the worlds desktops are allegedly Linux - comparable to Macs percentage I read somewhere).

 

If you are a technophobe then I suggest you download this to try and I warn you now I have not tried to install it (yet) but it is a nicely laid out 'Tabbed' desktop - Linpus Linux - installled on Acer Ones (see my response on the thread about Computing for the Elderly).

I haven't tried it (live) on my old PC's but another very nice distro to try is:

VectorLinux

and as for Ubuntu, I prefer one mans crafted version ("Thee Mahn") - go for UltimateEdition 2.3 x86 (not the gamers .iso) - I would love to know how peoples experiences are from a 'live' perspective!

Others to look at are Wolvix, and PCLinuxOS 2009.2 KDE (good for wireless dongles) PCLinuxOS 2009.2 Gnome (not good for wireless dongles) and Epidemic 3.1 beta 2 - love the glowing virus symbol at boot! last one only has US and Brazilian locales but you can change the keyboard to English GB.

If you like all things music I can highly recommend Musix 1.0r2stable and Musix 1.0R4 DVD stable iso. - the latter includes a 10 minute animated movie created entirely using OpenSource Software - 'Elephants Dream' - look for the hidden message on spoon fed Operating Systems/Thinking out of mainstream guidelines!

 

Best regards,

Edited November 21, 2009 by swarfendor43

[mikeybaby72 10]

And best Linux analogy of the year award goes to...

 

Presumably that copy of Ubuntu was at least 2 versions old as they don't use ALSA any more. Next time your PC needs it's bi-yearly Windows clean up get the resident geek to stick the latest version of Ubuntu on, the worst thing you'll have to do with that for what you need is find how to un-mute the microphone channel.

 

It's actually Ubuntu 9.10 that's JUST come out. I haven't seen the machine running Ubuntu since Julado found the mic problem, but if it can't be solved easily, then I'll re-install Ubuntu 9.04. That worked fine when I tested it. Julado has 'diagnosed' the problem as being an issue with ALSA, not me. I installed it for her using Wubi, so she could test it without having to install to seperate partition and overwrite MBR with GRUB. If and when she decided it was usable for her then I planned to do a full install, and configure GRUB on MBR. If she's not happy with it, then I'm sure I can find another 'windows refugee' Distro to suit her needs, as she has a very nice Dell Desktop PC with good spec and plenty of HDD space. It's just a matter of finding one that works 'out of the box' for her. Then, if the sticky stuff hits the spinny thing, she'll be able to re-install it herself.

 

I'll turn her into a Geek, yet!!!

 

"The Geek shall Inherit the Earth."

 

Long live Open Source Computing

 

 

:banana::banana:

[swarfendor437 14]

It's actually Ubuntu 9.10 that's JUST come out. I haven't seen the machine running Ubuntu since Julado found the mic problem, but if it can't be solved easily, then I'll re-install Ubuntu 9.04. That worked fine when I tested it. Julado has 'diagnosed' the problem as being an issue with ALSA, not me. I installed it for her using Wubi, so she could test it without having to install to seperate partition and overwrite MBR with GRUB. If and when she decided it was usable for her then I planned to do a full install, and configure GRUB on MBR. If she's not happy with it, then I'm sure I can find another 'windows refugee' Distro to suit her needs, as she has a very nice Dell Desktop PC with good spec and plenty of HDD space. It's just a matter of finding one that works 'out of the box' for her. Then, if the sticky stuff hits the spinny thing, she'll be able to re-install it herself.

 

I'll turn her into a Geek, yet!!!

 

"The Geek shall Inherit the Earth."

 

Long live Open Source Computing

 

 

:banana::banana:

 

I can verify Ultimate Edition 2.3 x.86 works out of the box and has a lot of software on the image to save you from downloading from the repositories - it also works well on a Dell Laptop!

[swarfendor437 14]

... it still doesn't run the applications I need to use at home. In this case, it was Ventrillo that had me over a barrel, and I can't see that ever changing as the developers have said they will never allow a Linux port.

 

 

You might like to try a different distro then download a demo of Cross-Over Office (this will allow you to install and run Microsoft Office 2003 if you can't bear to work with OpenOffice.org office suite) which can run some Windows games and some Windows Apps. Cross-over Office isn't free but reasonably priced IMHO.