slimsid2000 Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Ok, let me try and explain what I was trying to say in earlier posts but perhaps wasn't quite clear enough. The drivers have basically four cases for a strike: Legal case - I assume that they have conducted all required ballots etc. Ecconomic case - If the supply of labour is not meeting demand then the price of labour (wages) should be increased. Moral case 1 (Drivers V Firstbus) - As First are making good profits on their South Yorkshire services, as the result of a near monopoly, then the drivers are entitled to a better pay award. Moral Case 2 (Drivers V Passengers) - It is on this fourth and final case that I believe the drivers fall down. I would suggest that to cause serious inconvenience to a whole county in persuit of personal financial gain you need to prove you are a pretty deserving cause. It is for this reason that I pointed out that many passengers are on lower incomes than the bus drivers and that many (though not all) drivers seem to waste money on cigarettes. In this context I believe the cigarette comment was justified. Secondly is the fact that passengers will suffer even though they have no control at all over what pay drivers get. We are the meat in the sandwhich here caught between the company and the drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 point number 4 is not a point. The drivers do not have to consider the public, it's 1st group who provide the service, it their inaction that will cause a loss of service to the public. jubby, I don't know what you think inflation is, but it's a damn sight higher than 1.5% or whatever they were offered. so what about the perks, all jobs come with perks. I'm just finishing £28 worth of dinner in a £90/night hotel. A perk, maybe, although i'd rather be at home eating my own food. Would you have them accept a pitiful payrise every year until they are on the minimum wage, simply because they get 1 perk? Or maybe it's more to do with the fact that you'd rather not be inconvenienced even if it means every bus driver in the county gets screwed over by 1st? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Originally posted by Cyclone I'm just finishing £28 worth of dinner in a £90/night hotel. Have they raised the maximum allowance from £25 then? I didn't know, must check the intranet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carcrash Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Like any other Job you get good bus drivers and bad bus drivers. I worked in residential care for many years and a big part of my job was taking people with Special Needs around the city on public transport. Some bus drivers were absolute stars. One particuler one helped me deal with someone who was having a pretty bad Epilepic fit. He parked the bus up on Ellesmere road and let me get on with dealing with the situation. Told all the passengers what was happening and asked them to remain quite untill everything was sorted. Talked to the other traffic about what was happening and asked for understanding as we were blocking the road. Of course there are the other ones who find it to much effort to get out of the cab and pull down the wheelchair ramp. Gits. When you think about the amount of abuse these people take on a day in day out basis they have my full support. It's is going to bugger my business when it happens as no one will come to the gigs I putting on but sod it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest unners Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by jubby Remember they get other perk as well Like a bus pass for them and their partner work about a grand a year - it costs me £43 a month for mine which I still have to pay if they strike, so it costs me twice. Once for the pass in the first place and second for the taxi to get me to work, which will cost me a hours wage to pay for. Like I've said its in line with inflation, and its the customers who pay their wages who suffer. I don't come back with we don't pay their wages as a first driver has already said on this forum before as how do first get their money - though fares of course. Jubby The only time i ever use my pass on is on the Supertram about once a month,so that saves the cost of a day saver @ £2.70 a month or £32.40 per year. The rest of the time i walk to work and use the car for Shopping etc. And as for my Partner she works at East Midlands Airport so pass i no use and wont get on a bus in a million years!! And you have to be married/living together to get the pass. So for me i would prefer to have a grand pay rise instead of the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubby Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by unners The only time i ever use my pass on is on the Supertram about once a month,so that saves the cost of a day saver @ £2.70 a month or £32.40 per year. The rest of the time i walk to work and use the car for Shopping etc. And as for my Partner she works at East Midlands Airport so pass i no use and wont get on a bus in a million years!! And you have to be married/living together to get the pass. So for me i would prefer to have a grand pay rise instead of the pass. Sorry by saying partner I meant as living as though you were married. How you use your perk is up to you it is still a benifit as deatiled in yuor contract. Telewest offer free services if you work for them and I'm sure not everyone uses them who do. Still didn't take my point that I who pay towards your wages suffers so I can help pay you more. I lose every time as fares go up, and during the strike I have to get to work via other more expensive means while still paying for a service I can't use. jubby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimsid2000 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by Cyclone point number 4 is not a point. The drivers do not have to consider the public, it's 1st group who provide the service, it their inaction that will cause a loss of service to the public. Or maybe it's more to do with the fact that you'd rather not be inconvenienced even if it means every bus driver in the county gets screwed over by 1st? I'm sorry but this is incorect. If there is a strike it will be because the drivers made that decision. They may not like the choice on offer but they still do have a choice. Of course i don't want to be inconvenienced. I suppose I am being just as selfish as the drivers. The difference is that I admit it. I am simply pointin out that there are not two sides in this dispute but three; the third being passengers. Any debate about the rights and wrongs of a bus strike has to acknowledge this fact. To pretent it is only a dispute between drivers and bus company is not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commie pig Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 you're wrong Sid, the drivers are employed by First Group, it is with them they sign a contract, not the passengers. When they are driving the buses they establish a contract with the customers (to take them where they are meant to go, provide polite service etc), but it is only at that point. They are employees of the company which is contracted to provide the service, if the service is not provided, it is the company that is responsible. Of course it's sensible from a tactical point of view for the drivers to try to ensure that there is as much support for them as possible from passengers, but it is by no means essential for them to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubby Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by commie pig you're wrong Sid, the drivers are employed by First Group, it is with them they sign a contract, not the passengers. When they are driving the buses they establish a contract with the customers (to take them where they are meant to go, provide polite service etc), but it is only at that point. They fail on this point with customer contract esp polite service:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commie pig Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 depends on your definition of polite really - always a tricky one. for me, as long as they aint telling me to 'gimme the right change or f. off my bus you commie pig', then thats politce enough for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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