altus 540 #481 Posted September 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tony said: Wouldn't have happened if the Allies had decided so. The Red Army was in absolutely no position to take on the Axis without support from Britain and the USA and if they had stuck to the Molotov Von Ribbentrop agreement there would have been no Eastern Front for Britain and the USA to support. We really need to put to bed this modern revisionist idea that the Red Army won WW2 for us. If only it were as simple as this weird generation of self-loathers' imagination fantasise about. I thought the revisionist idea was to stop ignoring the Russian contribution in WW2 because we wouldn't have won (or it would have been very much harder) without the Red Army not they they would have won without us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Tony 10 #482 Posted September 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, altus said: I thought the revisionist idea was to stop ignoring the Russian contribution in WW2 because we wouldn't have won (or it would have been very much harder) without the Red Army not they they would have won without us. I suppose that's an opinion and it's certainly valid, although it seems to be splitting hairs because, essentially, WW2 was won by splitting Axis forces across multiple fronts while denying supplies needed to support war as well as civil society. It was British and USA men and supplies that created, enabled and funded the Eastern Front. I'll give you another concept which the revisionists (conveniently?) avoid: Without the Molotov von Ribbentrop agreement there wouldn't have even been a WW2 at all. Without it, Germany wouldn't have had the bravado to march into Poland, Britain would not have had to declare war on Germany, and arguably the Blitzkrieg rush to move German troops west wouldn't have happened. What an interesting thread drift though Altus . Perhaps there are parallels with the current AUKUS / China situation which we might come to understand and hopefully avoid the unthinkable repeat of history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
whiteowl 54 #483 Posted September 22, 2021 4 hours ago, West 77 said: To be fair the US weren't really neutral before Pearl Harbor and set up a lend lease program for military equipment. The US officially stayed out of the second world war initially because the American people didn't want their country to get involved in another war caused in Europe. After Pearl Harbor the US only declared war on Japan. It was Germany who declared war on the US after the US declared war on Japan. Absolutely correct - it's debatable whether the USA would have joined the war on Germany had Hitler not declared war on them. They would have continued the lend-lease, but combat troops? The World at War series, episode 7 has some good insights from people involved in the decision making at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Annie Bynnol 613 #484 Posted September 22, 2021 On 20/09/2021 at 21:00, tzijlstra said: Name me the last Democrat president that didn't start a war? Either in name of the US, or in name of 'Peacekeeping'. Small clue, Obama (Libya), Clinton (Bosnia), Carter (Lebanon), Johnson (Vietnam), Truman (Korea), FDR (WW2), Wilson (Mexico). Simplistic and inaccurate. The stated American foreign policy for nearly 200 hundred has involved preventing the spread of imperialism and communism particularly in the Americas and the Pacific. A policy actively followed by every President since the Civil War. Not only has every President of every flavour sanctioned open economic and military warfare, they have been involved in dozens of covert and overt actions. South Korea was partitioned post WWII and subsequently invaded -Truman did not 'start' the war. Eisenhower started the American the arming and training of the South Vietnamese after the French defeat. Nixon extended the Vietnam War for his own political gain. Reagan repeatedly involved USA forces (including bombing) against Libya. Grenada invasion. Chad. Angola. Afghanistan George Herbert Walker Bush Panama, Philippines, Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia. The Bosnian war and NATO intervention started before Clinton was elected. American intervention is not based on Democrats v Republican. The American political system does not work like that. American Foreign Policy has to cope with the short term tenancies of Presidents and the "lame duck" years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
trastrick 866 #485 Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) On 22/09/2021 at 09:03, Annie Bynnol said: Simplistic and inaccurate. The stated American foreign policy for nearly 200 hundred has involved preventing the spread of imperialism and communism particularly in the Americas and the Pacific. A policy actively followed by every President since the Civil War. Not only has every President of every flavour sanctioned open economic and military warfare, they have been involved in dozens of covert and overt actions. South Korea was partitioned post WWII and subsequently invaded -Truman did not 'start' the war. Eisenhower started the American the arming and training of the South Vietnamese after the French defeat. Nixon extended the Vietnam War for his own political gain. Reagan repeatedly involved USA forces (including bombing) against Libya. Grenada invasion. Chad. Angola. Afghanistan George Herbert Walker Bush Panama, Philippines, Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia. The Bosnian war and NATO intervention started before Clinton was elected. American intervention is not based on Democrats v Republican. The American political system does not work like that. American Foreign Policy has to cope with the short term tenancies of Presidents and the "lame duck" years. A little balance might be appropriate here. Lol Truman dropped Atomic Bombs on 2 Japanese cities, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian women and children. JFK brought the world to the brink of Nuclear Holocaust in 1963 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Carter Presided over the rise of Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini Clinton bombed more sovereign countries than any other President, before or since. Obama/Biden Presided over the rise of the ISIS Caliphate, and the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Biden Presided over the take over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. Mullah Nooruddin Turabi, a founder of the Taliban who will control prisons under the new government in Afghanistan, said strict punishment, including amputations and executions, will return. "Everyone criticized us for the punishments in the stadium, but we have never said anything about their laws and their punishments," Turabi said in Kabul during an interview, which was published Thursday by the Associated Press. "No one will tell us what our laws should be. We will follow Islam, and we will make our laws on the Quran." https://www.foxnews.com/politics/taliban-founder-says-strict-punishment-amputations-afghanistan Edited September 23, 2021 by trastrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Longcol 610 #486 Posted September 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, trastrick said: A little balance might be appropriate here. Lol Truman dropped Atomic Bombs on 2 Japanese cities, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian women and children. JFK brought the world to the brink of Nuclear Holocaust in 1963 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Carter Presided over the rise of Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini Clinton bombed more sovereign countries than any other President, before or since. Obama/Biden Presided over the rise of the ISIS Caliphate, and the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Biden Presided over the take over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. So what do you want US presidents to do? Intervene as per Truman, Clinton? Non intervention per Carter, Obama, Biden? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
trastrick 866 #487 Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Longcol said: So what do you want US presidents to do? Intervene as per Truman, Clinton? Non intervention per Carter, Obama, Biden? Lol What I, or you "want" is of little consequence. What we "need" from the Leader of the Free World, is at least an an understanding of history, and the competence to effectively put into place policies to ensure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated ad infinitum. As the BBC put it: "What transpired four decades ago between America and Khomeini is not just diplomatic history. The US desire to make deals with what it considers pragmatic elements within the Islamic Republic continues to this day. So does the staunchly anti-American legacy that Khomeini left for Iran" How right they were! It's not brain surgery, but common sense, and here's at least one guy who figured it out over 4 years ago. August 21, 2017 How right he was! Edited September 24, 2021 by trastrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
The_DADDY 3,479 #488 Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) Donald J Trump Probably the most underrated President in American history. God Bless 45 🇺🇸 Edited September 24, 2021 by The_DADDY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
hackey lad 3,991 #489 Posted September 24, 2021 I see Biden is having problems on the border with immigrants from Haiti . Remember the outcry when Trump had the same problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Longcol 610 #490 Posted September 24, 2021 8 hours ago, trastrick said: Lol What I, or you "want" is of little consequence. What we "need" from the Leader of the Free World, is at least an an understanding of history, and the competence to effectively put into place policies to ensure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated ad infinitum. As the BBC put it: "What transpired four decades ago between America and Khomeini is not just diplomatic history. The US desire to make deals with what it considers pragmatic elements within the Islamic Republic continues to this day. So does the staunchly anti-American legacy that Khomeini left for Iran" How right they were! It's not brain surgery, but common sense, and here's at least one guy who figured it out over 4 years ago. August 21, 2017 How right he was! By making a deal with the Taliban for them to take over Afghanistan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Carbuncle 0 #491 Posted September 24, 2021 8 hours ago, trastrick said: It's not brain surgery, but common sense, and here's at least one guy who figured it out over 4 years ago. August 21, 2017 I'm sorry I do not like Biden and showing me pictures of that orange excrescence is not going to change my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
the_bloke 17 #492 Posted September 25, 2021 The press in the US are upset because Boris ask for some impromptu press questions after a photo op whilst at the White House and all the US press were removed so they didn't try and ask Joe any off the cuff questions. Biden will only answer pre submitted and vetted questions where he has time to have his answer scripted, whereas the typical British process is just to ask anything and get an unscripted bumbling reply. Apparently the White House is blaming Boris for Biden's total lack of accountability to the press. https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/white-house-press-pool-rages-as-biden-snubs-us-media-at-uk-meeting/ https://www.newsweek.com/jen-psaki-blames-u-k-boris-johnson-white-house-reporter-chaos-1631806 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...