The Labour Party - Part 2

[L00b 441]

7 hours ago, hackey lad said:

It’s quiet on this thread , wonder why? 

Kinda hard to comment on an opposition that does not ‘oppose’, but just sits back in silence.

 

Plus, fewer scandals (edit: than Konservatives) 😏😉

Edited June 22, 2022 by L00b

[Findlay 116]

Good government only exists with good opposition, we have neither. Society is held together with glue called "good nature" which dissolves daily by the actions of politicians and law makers. 

[hackey lad 3,996]

3 hours ago, L00b said:

Kinda hard to comment on an opposition that does not ‘oppose’, but just sits back in silence.

 

Plus, fewer scandals (edit: than Konservatives) 😏😉

But with more splits than a splitty thing 

[Anna B 1,417]

Unfortunately, collective bargaining through the Unions, and possibly striking, is the only power the working man has left.

It would be lovely if a decent payrise could be achieved in the same way that the MP's 11% was arrived at, and of course the CEO's etc all vote themselves stonking pay rises and bonuses that well outstrip their workers who are the actual means of production and profits, but hey ho.

 

And why are pay rises a single percentage across the board, eg 2%? 

2% of a small wage is a very small increase, whereas 2% of a substantial  wage is much more and worth having. Yet it's those on a small wage that need it the most. If 'levelling up' is the on the agenda surely that has to change.

[Dromedary 166]

11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Unfortunately, collective bargaining through the Unions, and possibly striking, is the only power the working man has left.

The classic term "the working man" misused again.

 

11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

It would be lovely if a decent payrise could be achieved in the same way that the MP's 11% was arrived at, and of course the CEO's etc all vote themselves stonking pay rises and bonuses that well outstrip their workers who are the actual means of production and profits, but hey ho.

MPs are to get 2.7% not 11%. 

 

You keep complaining about CEO's getting big pay rises but just how many CEO's are there getting those rises compared to "the working man?"

 

[harvey19 541]

16 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Unfortunately, collective bargaining through the Unions, and possibly striking, is the only power the working man has left.

It would be lovely if a decent payrise could be achieved in the same way that the MP's 11% was arrived at, and of course the CEO's etc all vote themselves stonking pay rises and bonuses that well outstrip their workers who are the actual means of production and profits, but hey ho.

 

And why are pay rises a single percentage across the board, eg 2%? 

2% of a small wage is a very small increase, whereas 2% of a substantial  wage is much more and worth having. Yet it's those on a small wage that need it the most. If 'levelling up' is the on the agenda surely that has to change.

I always thought percentage wage rises were ridiculous and could not understand why the union bosses who moaned about the bosses high wages wanted them.

We hear complaints about the wage/salary gaps but percentage increases only make this worse.

[L00b 441]

40 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

But with more splits than a splitty thing 

And that matters because…?

 

Labour has been sitting on so many ideological fences for so long by now, so much under Starmer as under Corbyn before him, that it really doesn’t matter how split or riven by rivalries that ‘party’ may be: to all intents and purposes, it stands for little or nothing, so may as well not exist (edit: -anymore).

Edited June 22, 2022 by L00b

[alchresearch 215]

I guess it matters because as long as they're split they're infighting and not putting on a collective show of strength and opposition and squabbling amongst themselves.

 

Although it probably affects all parties I think Labour has the most splits and grudges.

 

There are those who won't support the party until Corbyn is back.  

[L00b 441]

Ideological rifts on that scale/depth cannot be fixed anytime soon, anymore than the still-higher levels of infighting within the Konservative party, that result in Johnson keeping the keys to no.10 whilst gradually transforming the UK into a Russian/Hungarian-like autocratic kleptocracy, can be fixed anytime soon.

 

So no, it doesn’t matter. Pragmatically for the best interests of the UK, both the Labour and the Konservative parties need to be retired by the electorate, with heavily-coordinated tactical voting at the next GE, to get out of this governance death spiral.

 

With 2 years to go, regrettably it likely won’t happen on a sufficient scale to break the bipartisanship. The protests and strike movements by people demanding better, will certainly be fun to watch in the meantime.

Edited June 22, 2022 by L00b

[hackey lad 3,996]

34 minutes ago, L00b said:

Ideological rifts on that scale/depth cannot be fixed anytime soon, anymore than the still-higher levels of infighting within the Konservative party, that result in Johnson keeping the keys to no.10 whilst gradually transforming the UK into a Russian/Hungarian-like autocratic kleptocracy, can be fixed anytime soon.

 

So no, it doesn’t matter. Pragmatically for the best interests of the UK, both the Labour and the Konservative parties need to be retired by the electorate, with heavily-coordinated tactical voting at the next GE, to get out of this governance death spiral.

 

With 2 years to go, regrettably it likely won’t happen on a sufficient scale to break the bipartisanship. The protests and strike movements by people demanding better, will certainly be fun to watch in the meantime.

Need to be retired, to be replaced by who ?

[Anna B 1,417]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Ideological rifts on that scale/depth cannot be fixed anytime soon, anymore than the still-higher levels of infighting within the Konservative party, that result in Johnson keeping the keys to no.10 whilst gradually transforming the UK into a Russian/Hungarian-like autocratic kleptocracy, can be fixed anytime soon.

 

So no, it doesn’t matter. Pragmatically for the best interests of the UK, both the Labour and the Konservative parties need to be retired by the electorate, with heavily-coordinated tactical voting at the next GE, to get out of this governance death spiral.

 

With 2 years to go, regrettably it likely won’t happen on a sufficient scale to break the bipartisanship. The protests and strike movements by people demanding better, will certainly be fun to watch in the meantime.

I'm hoping people will start to realise that our so called 'democracy' is anything but.

 

I agree that both parties should be retired, but I doubt very much it will ever happen.

 

I'd like to see a new form of government with PR, and all decisions for the way forward to be made cross party, so different demographics and points of view would be considered and with a free vote. I wince when I watch important debates in the house of commons attended by only a handful of MPs.

I realise there is a good chance of chaos with this, (but we've got that anyway,) and the good of the country and the wellbeing of its people should be a unifying force.

Unfortunately there's far too much self interest going on at the moment, no wonder the system has become a hotbed of corruption, plus too many lobbyists, donors and whips sticking their oar in. 

Our government system harks back 200 years, built on a class system and beset with traditions (which a lot of politicians actually glory in,) that have no place in a modern, fast moving world. Scrap the lot, and let's start again with the best system we can devise that truly represents the people, and can start to tackle some very modern problems. 

 

[Organgrinder 1,946]

5 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I'm hoping people will start to realise that our so called 'democracy' is anything but.

 

I agree that both parties should be retired, but I doubt very much it will ever happen.

 

I'd like to see a new form of government with PR, and all decisions for the way forward to be made cross party, so different demographics and points of view would be considered and with a free vote. I wince when I watch important debates in the house of commons attended by only a handful of MPs.

I realise there is a good chance of chaos with this, (but we've got that anyway,) and the good of the country and the wellbeing of its people should be a unifying force.

Unfortunately there's far too much self interest going on at the moment, no wonder the system has become a hotbed of corruption, plus too many lobbyists, donors and whips sticking their oar in. 

Our government system harks back 200 years, built on a class system and beset with traditions (which a lot of politicians actually glory in,) that have no place in a modern, fast moving world. Scrap the lot, and let's start again with the best system we can devise that truly represents the people, and can start to tackle some very modern problems. 

 

Very true.

How often do we hear that this or that needs modernising and bringing up to date for the modern age,  as in the railways and yet,

the thing that needs modernising most, which is our system of government and the royals, never gets touched.

They treat ordinary people like fools and why?

Because the ordinary people are daft enough to put up with it.