Who next for Tory Leader/PM?

[Magilla]

2 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

What utter nonsense from you both. The democratic UK  people  decided they didn't want the status quo when they voted to leave the EU. 

No, they voted for a Norway, CU/SM type arrangement, since that is exactly what all the leave campaigns said a vote to leave would mean

 

2 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

We will have a new Prime Minister soon who is prepared to walk away from a deal which Theresa May clearly was never prepared to do and the EU knew it and took advantage as a consequence in the negotiations.

The EU don't need to take advantage, they already have it. My analogy accurately reflects the UK's position.

 

Last time I checked, it was the EU threatening no-deal, not the UK!

 

See point 1 in the FT piece above

 

 

[Lockdoctor]

15 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

 

So you don’t support the Brexit Party any more?

I've never supported the Brexit Party.  I support Brexit because the democratic UK people voted to leave the EU.  I think the Brexit Party have done our country a big favour because  their success will lead to the Tory Party  electing a new leader who will implement the result of the EU referendum result on 31st October.   Then we can all move on and look forward to the future.

[Mister M]

It's been reported that Johnson will take part in BBC debate, but will not appear in the Channel 4 debate. He knows the BBC are totally supine, whereas C4 are more awkward and Independent.

[Lockdoctor]

Matt Hancock has dropped out.  I think Jeremy Hunt will pick up his votes in the next round.

[I1L2T3]

4 hours ago, Robin-H said:

I'm not sure Labour had their six tests as of June 2016.

 

I'm even less sure the EU would have agreed to Labour's six tests, seeing as they were asking for things that the EU have given a big categoric no to. They wanted the 'exact same benefits' that we have now as members of the customs union/single market.

 

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into another Brexit or Labour thread so probably shouldn't have mentioned it. 

 

 

The point remains: they would not have invoked A50 without a plan.

 

May’s reckless triggering of A50 was possibly the most disastrous action by a PM since Suez.

 

Utterly disastrous 

4 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

I've never supported the Brexit Party.  I support Brexit because the democratic UK people voted to leave the EU.  I think the Brexit Party have done our country a big favour because  their success will lead to the Tory Party  electing a new leader who will implement the result of the EU referendum result on 31st October.   Then we can all move on and look forward to the future.

You’re forgetting almost half of the democratic people don’t want to leave, probably more now.

 

Nobody can force this through. That’s the problem.

 

If Johnson becomes PM my money is on remain 

[Robin-H]

13 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

The point remains: they would not have invoked A50 without a plan.

 

May’s reckless triggering of A50 was possibly the most disastrous action by a PM since Suez.

 

Utterly disastrous 

That's an odd thing to say. Corbyn was clear he wanted to invoke Article 50 immediately - quite a while before May actually did. Labour did not have a plan on the 24th of June 2016 (when he said it should be invoked now), so I'm sure you can argue that they wouldn't have invoked it without a plan. 

 

I'm also not sure why just having a plan makes a different. Invoking article 50 began the two year negotiation process. It wasn't possible to negotiate a plan with the EU before invoking it, so you can have a plan but it would have been entirely one sided, and it seems rather silly to come to decision about what you want before seeing what the other side are offering. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Robin-H

[altus]

17 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

That's an odd thing to say. Corbyn was clear he wanted to invoke Article 50 immediately - quite a while before May actually did. Labour did not have a plan on the 24th of June 2016 (when he said it should be invoked now), so I'm sure you can argue that they wouldn't have invoked it without a plan. 

 

I'm also not sure why just having a plan makes a different. Invoking article 50 began the two year negotiation process. It wasn't possible to negotiate a plan with the EU before invoking it, so you can have a plan but it would have been entirely one sided, and it seems rather silly to come to decision about what you want before seeing what the other side are offering. 

You can plan to be realistic about what you can expect the other side to agree to though. Corbyn's idea of what he wanted from the EU might have been mildly ambitious but he wasn't claiming we'd get all the benefits of EU membership without any of the responsibilities.

[Robin-H]

Just now, altus said:

You can plan to be realistic about what you can expect the other side to agree to though. Corbyn's idea of what he wanted from the EU might have been mildly ambitious but he wasn't claiming we'd get all the benefits of EU membership without any of the responsibilities.

He wanted to leave the EU, but have the 'exact same benefits'. 

 

The European Council’s negotiating guidelines are clear that “A non-member of the Union, that does not live up to the same obligations as a member, cannot have the same rights and enjoy the same benefits as a member.

 

Perhaps Corbyn would then agree to also have the exact same obligations as EU member states, but then you couldn't really call his plan leaving the EU. 

[Robin-H]

38 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

You’re forgetting almost half of the democratic people don’t want to leave, probably more now.

 

Nobody can force this through. That’s the problem.

 

If Johnson becomes PM my money is on remain 

If Johnson because PM my money is on a GE before the year is out. 

[Lockdoctor]

33 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

 

You’re forgetting almost half of the democratic people don’t want to leave, probably more now.

 

Nobody can force this through. That’s the problem.

 

If Johnson becomes PM my money is on remain 

It's irrelevant that almost  half of the democratic  people voted to remain in the EU because more than half of the democratic people voted leave the EU and it was a binary choice.

 

Time is running out for the Brexit blockers after they lost the vote in Parliament this week.  I don't think Boris will have any qualms about suspending Parliament if necessary in October in order to implement the democratic wishes of the majority who voted in the 2016 EU referendum.