Congestion charge in Sheffield

[geared 319]

With that kind of price you can see why they wanna keep them running for as long as possible.

Perhaps local councils will adjust the pricing to allow Euro 5 buses instead of Euro 6?

 

Unfortunately as it specifically targets NOx emissions that is aimed at Euro 6, that was the main reason for that standard.

[Planner1 438]

The full report to the Council's Cabinet is available here: http://democracy.sheffield.gov.uk/documents/s33102/Clean%20Air%20for%20Sheffield%20-%20Final.pdf

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2018 at 12:49 ----------

 

Is this about improving air quality?

 

Yes, it most certainly is.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2018 at 12:51 ----------

 

The buses and lorries will still be there giving out the same fumes.

The idea is that operators will be persuaded to upgrade their vehicles to comply with the required emission standards through the imposition of a daily charge.

 

Under the SCC proposal, they will be encouraged to change by the availability of grants and interest free loans.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2018 at 12:57 ----------

 

The cars arent being charged (yet) so will still be there giving out the same fumes.

 

Its generally accepted that in a few years time most cars will at least be hybrid or electric so the car emmissions problem is being solved gradually anyway.

 

The report says some areas are currently 30% over the legal limit. Transport only accounts for 50% of the overall emissions.

 

SCC's proposal accepts that the charging zone alone won't be sufficient and some measure of travel mode shift will be needed as well.

 

Cars won't be charged under the SCC proposal, but ultimately the government will decide what's acceptable. It's possible they will decide that cars need to be charged.

 

The proposal seeks to have the measures in place by 2021, which will won't be enough time for the general trend to hybrids/electric to have made the difference required.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2018 at 13:02 ----------

 

I understand that buses may be very polluting. But I find it hard to believe a large component is not caused by private cars. So is it really true we can get the pollution down without targeting those as well?

 

Cars are a large component, but the other types of vehicle produce disproportionate amounts of pollution compared to their overall numbers, so it's natural they'd be targeted first.

 

Have a look at the full Cabinet report which explains it all in more detail. I've provided a link above.

 

Ultimately the decision on whether cars need to be charged will lie with the government. If they think the current proposal won't deliver the necessary improvements in air quality, the only alternative is to charge cars.

[geared 319]

I understand that buses may be very polluting. But I find it hard to believe a large component is not caused by private cars. So is it really true we can get the pollution down without targeting those as well?

 

Cars are a large component, but the other types of vehicle produce disproportionate amounts of pollution compared to their overall numbers, so it's natural they'd be targeted first.

 

The council report says all road traffic causes about half of the NOx emissions, and of that private cars account for 50% (so 25% overall)

The other 25% is Taxis, buses, and goods vehicles, however they only make up 12% of vehicles on the road, which is why they're first in line.

 

Hopefully by the time it's brought in and later assessed fewer numbers of the high polluting private cars will be on the road, bringing the NOx figures low enough to not need to bother with.

 

The scheme isn't due for a few years, then a few years will be needed to see what impact it's had.

Hopefully that'll be around 2025, by then EURO 6 cars will be about 10 years old, pushing the older EURO 5 and EURO 4 ones firmly into the territory of 'old banger'

[apelike 10]

but that won't ever work, because the buses, trucks and vans are owned by private individuals.

If you gave them a bunch of cash to 'upgrade' their vehicle, they'll just trouser the money and walk off.

 

Didnt that sort of thing happen a while ago where people were given a good trade in allowance so they could buy less polluting vehicles instead? Its a pity Thatcher was not listened to much when she proposed that instead of using cat converters we implemented lean-burn engines instead.

 

I am all for targeting pollution but creating a pollution zone, having cameras and signs erected at a high cost and then charging people will not work fast enough to change things as those charges will just get passed on somehow. The best way to tackle the problem as I see it is to invest directly and target the motorist instead of wasting £40+ million setting up a pollution zone. BTW you can probably tell I am not a motorist but so far no one has answered how these camera will target the heavily polluting vehicles.

Edited November 14, 2018 by apelike

[truman 10]

Didnt that sort of thing happen a while ago where people were given a good trade in allowance so they could buy less polluting vehicles instead? Its a pity Thatcher was not listened to much when she proposed that instead of using cat converters we implemented lean-burn engines instead.

 

I am all for targeting pollution but creating a pollution zone, having cameras and signs erected at a high cost and then charging people will not work fast enough to change things as those charges will just get passed on somehow. The best way to tackle the problem as I see it is to invest directly and target the motorist instead of wasting £40+ million setting up a pollution zone. BTW you can probably tell I am not a motorist but so far no one has answered how these camera will target the heavily polluting vehicles.

 

The DVLA know which cars have which euro standard engine...read the number plate,check it agianst the list,if it's not the standard required then check to see if the charge has been paid,if not send fine...

 

It's not rocket science..

[lil-minx92 10]

The idea is that operators will be persuaded to upgrade their vehicles to comply with the required emission standards through the imposition of a daily charge.

 

 

Spend £40 million pounds to 'persuade' the operators to comply with required emission standards? Replicate this in cities across the country and billions of taxpayers money is being spent. It seems a disgustingly expensive (and environmentally costly) way of improving the emission standards of buses.

 

Dont they just alter the requirements in the MOT for private cars?

[ads36 219]

it does seem a bit 'stick' - with nothing in the way of 'carrot'...

[max 13]

it does seem a bit 'stick' - with nothing in the way of 'carrot'...

 

How about keeping 500 people alive who otherwise might have died from dirty air as a carrot?

[Planner1 438]

Spend £40 million pounds to 'persuade' the operators to comply with required emission standards? Replicate this in cities across the country and billions of taxpayers money is being spent. It seems a disgustingly expensive (and environmentally costly) way of improving the emission standards of buses.

 

Its not just about buses though. It includes taxis, vans and goods vehicles.

 

The Government is trying to avoid being prosecuted in court for failing to comply with legal standards on air quality. That could result in huge fines which the government can passport on to Local Authorities. The Government has been told to make improvements as quickly as possible. Local Authorities don't have the money to implement the necessary changes so the Government they are going to have to invest significant money.

[choogling 14]

How about keeping 500 people alive who otherwise might have died from dirty air as a carrot?

 

pie in the sky figure plucked out of fresh air .

[max 13]

pie in the sky figure plucked out of fresh air .

 

That must be a huge relief to relatives of those who have died.

[tinfoilhat 11]

How about keeping 500 people alive who otherwise might have died from dirty air as a carrot?

 

Do you know the methodology used to reach that figure?