Gender Fluid etc, Opinions?

[Guest]

Good for you! I have some friends who got married and they picked a completely new surname rather than either of them take the other. Always thought that was a lovely idea.

 

Why would people that are inclined to be non-conformist like that take part in the institution of marriage in the first place?

[Halibut 12]

Why would people that are inclined to be non-conformist like that take part in the institution of marriage in the first place?

 

Because they wanted to? It really amazes me how ultra conservative some old people can be.

 

Is two people choosing a new name for themselves really so threateningly radical?

[tinfoilhat 11]

Because they wanted to? It really amazes me how ultra conservative some old people can be.

 

Is two people choosing a new name for themselves really so threateningly radical?

 

What you might call ultra-conservative others would call traditional, and they might have preferred their name to be carried on through the generations rather than stop abruptly. But I'd agree it's not really threatening to anyone, and I do agree with Alan in so much I don't know why people would want to celebrate a relationship in an institution that doesn't want them, but each to their own.

[Halibut 12]

What you might call ultra-conservative others would call traditional, and they might have preferred their name to be carried on through the generations rather than stop abruptly. But I'd agree it's not really threatening to anyone, and I do agree with Alan in so much I don't know why people would want to celebrate a relationship in an institution that doesn't want them, but each to their own.

 

Why do you say the institution doesn't want them? Which part of sgtkate's post suggests that?

[tinfoilhat 11]

Why do you say the institution doesn't want them? Which part of sgtkate's post suggests that?

 

I was responding to what Alan was alluding to really and not responding to the Sgts post.

 

There are institutions that don't like gay people for example and unconventional marriages - the Church for one. I don't know why gay people fought to get married there - it doesn't make sense to me. If they want to go, go for it, but I don't understand why.

[sgtkate 10]

I was responding to what Alan was alluding to really and not responding to the Sgts post.

 

There are institutions that don't like gay people for example and unconventional marriages - the Church for one. I don't know why gay people fought to get married there - it doesn't make sense to me. If they want to go, go for it, but I don't understand why.

 

Gay people can get 'married' in a register office and it still be called a marriage. There is a lot in a name, but I would have rather that civil partnerships be made available to heterosexual couples than marriage be made available to gay ones!

[tinfoilhat 11]

Gay people can get 'married' in a register office and it still be called a marriage. There is a lot in a name, but I would have rather that civil partnerships be made available to heterosexual couples than marriage be made available to gay ones!

 

Didn't someone try to get a law for heterosexual civil partnerships?

[sgtkate 10]

Didn't someone try to get a law for heterosexual civil partnerships?

 

Yes and failed bizarrely. I'd have thought it was a case for basic equality for straight couples to be allowed to have a civil partnership but there we go.

[Olive 10]

I do understand exactly what you mean. I guess someone who chooses to be female has an idea of what they expect that to feel like or how they will be treated, and it's society that has shaped that expectation. At a shallow level things like wearing make-up or dresses and that you prefer Love Island to Top Gear, even if it's not true for the majority of women.

 

Figures show the vast majority of transsexuals (not transgender, I don't have figures for that) are males transitioning into females. Add that to the fact that male suicides under 49 are responsible for nearly 80% of all suicide attempts in the UK perhaps the desire of some men to become women is more of a push away from the pressures of being male (in their eyes) rather than the allure of being female.

 

Thanks Sgkate, I'm glad someone has a notion about what I'm blithering on about! I guess everyone's reasons are different.

 

I saw a documentary recently where a respected child psychologist was being lambasted for suggesting that some children were being harmed because they were being almost pressured to adopt a different gender.

 

They had one kid on the programme who was about 8 or 9 and obsessed with flouncing about in a dress with a handbag and makeup on. He really thought that made him a girl. His notion of what being a girl actually means was very shallow (unsurprisingly! ). I thought it was a shame he could just be left to get on with it. Why can't he just be a little boy who loves dresses and handbags?

 

I do wonder if there are some unhappy people seeking answers in the wrong place, and I'm not sure that introducing the idea that changing gender, especially for young people, might make matters even worse.

 

I'm not saying that noone should change gender, just that it might not always be the answer.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Thanks Sgkate, I'm glad someone has a notion about what I'm blithering on about! I guess everyone's reasons are different.

 

I saw a documentary recently where a respected child psychologist was being lambasted for suggesting that some children were being harmed because they were being almost pressured to adopt a different gender.

 

They had one kid on the programme who was about 8 or 9 and obsessed with flouncing about in a dress with a handbag and makeup on. He really thought that made him a girl. His notion of what being a girl actually means was very shallow (unsurprisingly! ). I thought it was a shame he could just be left to get on with it. Why can't he just be a little boy who loves dresses and handbags?

 

I do wonder if there are some unhappy people seeking answers in the wrong place, and I'm not sure that introducing the idea that changing gender, especially for young people, might make matters even worse.

 

I'm not saying that noone should change gender, just that it might not always be the answer.

 

That's an interesting post. At 8 or 9 surely a child can just have a mess about rather than mum and dad deciding Tarquin is challenging their pre-ordained gender identity. I had a cousin who was mad on hoovering as a small child - lord knows what they'd make of it now!

[Olive 10]

That's an interesting post. At 8 or 9 surely a child can just have a mess about rather than mum and dad deciding Tarquin is challenging their pre-ordained gender identity. I had a cousin who was mad on hoovering as a small child - lord knows what they'd make of it now!

 

I've just remembered, I used to coerse my brother into dressing up in my nurse's outfit when we were little. He was fine with playing along with it, even used to pretend his name was Lorna! Bless him, he was about 4. God knows how my parents kept straight faces.

 

 

There's a documentary on tonight at 9 on BBC2. "No more boys and girls: can our kids go gender free". Might be worth a look.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Olive

[Hots on 10]

Gay people can get 'married' in a register office and it still be called a marriage. There is a lot in a name, but I would have rather that civil partnerships be made available to heterosexual couples than marriage be made available to gay ones!

 

"Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we're going to do with marriage when we get there - because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie.

 

The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again I don't think it should exist."

 

That is a direct quote from Masha Gessen, a high profile LGBT activist.

 

Here she is talking openly all about it to cheers from the audience.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Hots on