The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[L00b]

I do wish the remain side would cease and desist from eagerly flaunting their priviledged backgrounds and high incomes on this thread.

I do wish you'd pack it up with the strawmen, such as-

We fully understand that this highly educated elite are out of touch with how the majority of decent working class people struggle to make ends meet. Despite 44 years of EU rule bringing "no end of improvements", supposedly.

-because it's not even December yet, but this thread is already looking like a winter wonderland thanks to your efforts.

 

Am I going to get my wish?

 

Likely not, so neither will you: I'm getting a 25% pay rise in Q1 2018 taking me clear into 6 € figures p.a. only because-

 

(i) Leavers won the referendum and the subsequent handling of Brexit by the government severely threatens our livelihood in this country through its inevitable consequences on my professional activity - that is the fundamental reason for the move.

 

(ii) freedom of movement [which works both ways] allows me to jobsearch, and then move and take a job, anywhere across the rest of the EU27 no differently than anywhere across the UK - that explains the geographical scope of the jobmarket.

 

(iii) there is higher demand for, and less offer of, my skills elsewhere in the EU (as it happens, appreciating faster in value as <actual> Brexit nears) - that explains the scale of the pay rise.

 

If you voted for Brexit, I thank you: that move and pay rise definitely wouldn't have happened without your referendum win and May's handling of it since

 

Accessorily, it's called seizing an opportunity, and there's no 'privilege' whatsoever in that. Just the gumption to act, irrespective of whether that is out of your own initiative or out of unfolding events.

I am proud that I defied the will of Goldman Sachs in the referendum.

Pride is a sin, and doesn't put food on the table nor a roof on your head, no more than 'sovereignty'.

 

As for the 'privileged background': the EU paid my university fees to SHU (fees which were raised because I was not British, as that was BITD when UK unis were not yet charging fees to British student), and that's the only 'leg up' that I've ever had.

 

I arrived in this country in the early 90s with a suitcase of clothing and my hi-fi in the boot of an old and battered Citroën AX, in Hull. No relationships, no network, no prospect job offer, no UK or Uni-level qualifications, and only a very approximate command of English. Just a personal roll of the dice, considering the employment and economic prospects on the Continent BITD.

 

It's taken me 24 years (including a parenthesis of 4 years in Ireland) of grafting and seizing opportunities -with a healthy dose of financial/prudential sense- to get to a profession, a detached 4-bed, 3 cars, a decent lifestyle and relative financial safety for my family (which I support alone) and that level of earning potential: it's not been gifted, nor landed in my plate by luck or accident. All of it has been earned and paid for (no inheritance or money gifts along the way), with after-tax money. And rest assured that I've paid my full share (likely more than, what with being on PAYE with no access to the usual corporate/directorship dodges) all along: I have all the payslips and P60s to prove it.

 

Where's your 'privileged background' now, then?

Edited November 2, 2017 by L00b

[sgtkate]

I am proud that I defied the will of Goldman Sachs in the referendum.

 

Did you?

 

Proud of screwing over the majority of lower earners in the UK? Taking money and security away from them? Making their lives harder while the 'elites' simply move their operations elsewhere and carry on getting richer?

 

No I'm not proud of that and grateful I'm not so I can actually feel good about my vote.

[tzijlstra]

Let's see. I read what he/she does as being more housekeeper than rocket scientist. Why you care is beyond me but it would explain your confusion.

 

I'd happily invite you to do my job for a day, the problem is I carry a lot of responsibilities and you haven't convinced me you could manage more than a packet of M&Ms. Also, your understanding of what a PhD or indeed education is for is severely lacking.

 

I do wish the remain side would cease and desist from eagerly flaunting their priviledged backgrounds and high incomes on this thread.

 

We fully understand that this highly educated elite are out of touch with how the majority of decent working class people struggle to make ends meet. Despite 44 years of EU rule bringing "no end of improvements", supposedly.

 

I am proud that I defied the will of Goldman Sachs in the referendum.

 

Did you?

 

I am flaunting my privileged (I do wish you'd get that spelling right at some point, you've had enough attempts at it now Smithy) background how?

 

Level the playing field, go to school, work hard and get better at life. The rewards are a nice bonus, nothing more. At least I now live in the knowledge that if something happens I can still eat next month or have my car fixed when needed. For the first 18 years of my life every broken fridge, new pair of shoes or clothing would come directly out of the food budget.

 

I'm very privileged, I worked for it.

[ENG601PM]

I'd happily invite you to do my job for a day, the problem is I carry a lot of responsibilities and you haven't convinced me you could manage more than a packet of M&Ms. Also, your understanding of what a PhD or indeed education is for is severely lacking.

Hehe nice quip, I like you. Let's give it a go. I can handle your Henry while you spend a day in an adult work situation with engineers, architects, bankers, contractors, government bodies and other such low lifes. You up for it? Will I need a tabbard?

[tinfoilhat]

Hehe nice quip, I like you. Let's give it a go. I can handle your Henry while you spend a day in an adult work situation with engineers, architects, bankers, contractors, government bodies and other such low lifes. You up for it? Will I need a tabbard?

 

What do you do?

[ENG601PM]

What do you do?

 

I very often make the tea, but you'll probably have already realised that's something that comes with seniority and responsiblity. No need to big up what I do specifically but you can probably guess it concerns large projects. Zltjsrlat will have a lovely day in a big chair and I'm certain that spending a day mucking out student digs will take me back a few years. and put a glow in my cheeks.

 

 

On a related note, there's a shocking attitude coming out of our education institutions that they must know what they are talking about with Brexit because, well, because they are the teachers. The trouble is, there are a lot of people, especially academics, who are simply guessing, their models have failed, and if we pay closer attention we find that they really aren't as clever as they need us to think they are. Even the pre referendum Treasury reports have been accused of using a model doomed to fail, so we seem to have ended up with the blind academics leading the blind government, but nobody dare admit it so the plan seems to be continued layering of data and blind predictions to obfuscate previous failings.

 

Anyone who tries to predict the implications of Brexit needs to be sent to the back of the class while the grown ups get on with planning to do something meaningful.

[L00b]

Anyone who tries to predict the implications of Brexit needs to be sent to the back of the class while the grown ups get on with planning to do something meaningful.

Feel free to read this, then this. And topically in view of today's BoE annoucement, perhaps this short one as well.

 

All sounds familiar? Now note the dates, if you didn't

 

Pound Sterling taking a hard slap post-referendum? check (not recovered yet, chances of doing so before March 2019 slim to none)

 

EU deal much harder to negotiate than originally mooted by Leavers? check (negotiations currently stalled, for those who haven't been keeping up)

 

Inflation taking off in anger? check (today's rate hike isn't going to do squat about that one)

 

Base interest rate rise? check (mooted by the BoE: another 2 to 3 to follow by March 2019, possibly up to 3% by 2020)

 

<...>

 

Project Fear...sorry, 'the list', goes on. Each day. Every day. Inexorably. The only headliner that's going to be missing from it, is Osbournes' supermassive recession. But I'm still not writing that one off completely just yet, in case (i) May gets toppled and the Tory paleosceptics manage to get their stooge in place before March 2019 or (ii) the UK crashes out hard, with no deal nor any extension to the Article 50 clock (noting that (ii) would be a highly likely consequence of (i)).

 

"Growing up" is never synonymous with smarts: much of the implications of Brexit are perfectly clear to all but the most obtuse, because simply down to operation of law and/or logic. In that context, I'm confident most engineers understand flowcharts (if-this-then-that; if-that-then-this; next step; and so on). Predicting the consequences of Brexit, even if only in broad terms, is no more difficult than informing yourself about what the flowchart should be made up of (scale of terms-dependent) and then mapping it according to potential targets and/or outcomes, and each side's red lines.

 

Late edit - speaking of predictions - this happened yesterday evening. A momentous occasion in the national Brexit debate, and I doubt that there's enough popcorn in the entire world, to take us through how the release of the info in the "58 reports" is going to unfurl

Edited November 2, 2017 by L00b

[Cyclone]

I very often make the tea, but you'll probably have already realised that's something that comes with seniority and responsiblity. No need to big up what I do specifically but you can probably guess it concerns large projects. Zltjsrlat will have a lovely day in a big chair and I'm certain that spending a day mucking out student digs will take me back a few years. and put a glow in my cheeks.

 

 

On a related note, there's a shocking attitude coming out of our education institutions that they must know what they are talking about with Brexit because, well, because they are the teachers. The trouble is, there are a lot of people, especially academics, who are simply guessing, their models have failed, and if we pay closer attention we find that they really aren't as clever as they need us to think they are. Even the pre referendum Treasury reports have been accused of using a model doomed to fail, so we seem to have ended up with the blind academics leading the blind government, but nobody dare admit it so the plan seems to be continued layering of data and blind predictions to obfuscate previous failings.

 

Anyone who tries to predict the implications of Brexit needs to be sent to the back of the class while the grown ups get on with planning to do something meaningful.

 

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're 14 and on half term this week.

That's why you joined the forum and immediately starting being rude to people and making big claims about how important you are.

[gomgeg]

He can come and join me if he wants as I'm another £xx earner who gets to spend time on here each day. Perhaps you guys are in the wrong jobs. <shrugs>. And like loob and ILT, I also probably do considerably more both physically and financially for some of the worst off people in the UK than most Brexiters do.

 

I am from a reasonably advantaged background. My parents ran their own business, it gave them and me a comfortable enough living without making any of us millionaires. I went to private school on a scholarship as we wouldn't have afforded it without one, and then on to military school, the first of my family to do so. So whilst I have been given many advantages in my life, I'd like to think I've done something with that. So yes to answer Car Boot, do I *know* what it's like to be utterly destitute? No, I don't, but do I care enough to try to support those who are on their terms by taking the time to find out the best way to improve the lives of others, most definitely yes.

Where's he going to join you? Are you another one who's going to leave the country like some have been telling us for the last eighteen months?

I'm sure you'll be very happy together.

By the way I'm not in any job (shrug) I'm retired. I was one of the uneducated people who worked on the tools for fifty years, and when I wasn't working I wasn't getting paid apart from a short period working in the public sector so I wouldn't have had time to spend on forums bragging about how much I was paid.

[Cyclone]

Friends and family are what I guess stop most of us leaving. Because I'd happily go and leave the brexiteers to drown in the misery they're creating, I'd go somewhere with a better climate as well, damp summers and cold wet winters, no wonder we built an empire, we were just looking for somewhere sunnier to live.