Why I'm a conservative!

[alchresearch]

Ah, back on topic. There is plenty of crap to be found for people to make a last attempt to frighten others to not let go of the status quo government.

 

<SNIP>

 

Well done on completely missing the point.

 

This isn't about Corbyn - its about the people who support him.

 

They don't like anyone who doesn't see their point of view - and why I (and others) singled out Halibut for calling Tories "tossers" in his post.

[Penistone999]

There's a lot of me and I in your post which is all I need to tell me that you are indeed a Conservative.

 

What is the problem with that ?

 

The bottom line is , everyones first priority is to look after themselves

[TimmyR]

I'm essentially very conservative....

 

Just to be clear and this may be part of what you're saying: being conservative and supporting the Conservative party are not the same thing.

 

---------- Post added 19-06-2017 at 13:01 ----------

 

Every baby born on this world is born without money.

 

That is total rubbish. As well as much of everything else you said. Babies have parents, parents have money, the baby therefore has money. In the same way that they have a home, have clothes, have food to eat, have opportunities.

 

Humans are the only species on earth who believe in money,

 

Whats your point here? Humans are the only species who have the intelligence to count, let alone invent money.

 

---------- Post added 19-06-2017 at 13:06 ----------

 

 

The Tories are still in charge get over it.

 

I would say that is a questionable statement. they are very much weakened. Get over it.

Edited June 19, 2017 by TimmyR

[dutch]

Well done on completely missing the point.

 

This isn't about Corbyn - its about the people who support him.

 

They don't like anyone who doesn't see their point of view - and why I (and others) singled out Halibut for calling Tories "tossers" in his post.

 

Then they are just like tories, they also don't like anyone who don't share their point of view.

Calling opposite sides tossers has become a meaningless joke, it is like dogs barking.

[sgtkate]

Your comment and my reply has little to do with conservative party.

 

Please note Staunton's precise usage of capitals. Staunton did not vote Tory I can guarantee you that by looking at his/her other posts, they are saying they are conservative in nature in the non-political meaning of the word. You are confusing 2 very different things.

[Cyclone]

Arguably they are saying that they are conservative in what the term is supposed to mean, but that the "Conservative" party are not (any longer). Perhaps they should rename themselves the Neoliberal party, or Party for (big) Business...

[Mister M]

I'm essentially very conservative. I value education, and I'm careful with money – I save for the future, pay off my debts promptly and generally adhere to the goods of family, friends and tradition. I mention this as a 'way in', a preamble to my argument below. I could start with 11 September 1973 when Augusto Pinochet, with the support of a number of US agencies and institutions, took control of Chile. I could go back earlier to US president Richard Nixon's going off gold in 1971, or right back to President Woodrow Wilson's Great War adventure. But, if you don't mind too much, I think I'll start with me!

 

My ambition in this thread is to reveal something of the nature of neoliberalism. And in doing so I shall be addressing themes that are far too difficult for people on sheffieldforum to understand!

 

Or at least that's what the economic masters of the neoliberal project would like us to think. But thankfully it's entirely untrue!

 

Their next line is to make sure we are very, very bored if we do try to make sense of their arcane world. Bonds, derivatives, subprime, FICO scores, Consolidated Debt Obligations, tranches, ratings, Credit Default Swaps, short and long investment. Yawn, it all sounds tedious – well that's the plan. They want us to go back to sleep.

 

What the economists and fixers really want is for us to just go away and leave them alone!

 

So, let's not!

 

Now, back to me!, particularly my being conservative of habit. Well as far as my credit card supplier is concerned, that's very bad news indeed. In fact they hate me! Why? Well simply because I'm a careful, prudent sort. And that's no good for the financial sector. In fact it's so bad that they have a name for me – they call me a 'deadbeat'.

 

Surely that's upside down – isn't deadbeat a US term for someone who's poor? Well, yes it is. And am I poor? No, I'm not. But to the credit sector this term means something else entirely, it signifies 'someone you can't make money from'. It means someone who settles their monthly bill before any interest becomes chargeable. They want me and you in debt to them, and the more in debt the better, because they just love all that interest we'd have to pay them.

 

So. Here's the first contradiction – finance hates conservatives.

 

Thanks Staunton a very interesting post.

 

This very much reminds me of a book that was trailed widely in the media when it was released about 7 years ago, but I've never got round to reading. It's called 'The Shock Doctrine' by Naomi Klein.

It traces the roots of neoliberalism back to the University of Chicago under Milton Friedman, and its applications in Chile and other countries (including the UK). Apparently it links a number of events such as the invasion of Iraq in 2003, CIA and torture (particularly in relation to the work of psychiatrist Ewen Cameron) with the application of ultra free market economics in various countries.

 

https://www.democracynow.org/2007/9/17/the_shock_doctrine_naomi_klein_on

 

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

 

EDIT: Also worth searching out are a number of highly regarded & well researched BBC documentaries by the film maker Adam Curtis.

Such as The Mayfair Set

The Power of Nightmares

The Century of The Self

These are available to watch free on the internet, if anyone is interested

Edited June 19, 2017 by Mister M

[Staunton]

But surely no investor would risk their capital on such securities without knowing what they were buying?

 

Enter the ratings agencies - venerable, long-established companies Moody's, Standard & Poor's and Fitch. They had a central role in something called securitisation, in other words, confirming the value of investment instruments such as Mortgage Backed Securities so that investors could be confident in what they were buying from the investment banks.

 

Or that was how it was supposed to be. However, the truth was very different. Those investment banks were the ones paying the ratings agencies to rate the securities they were selling on to investors - the ratings agencies had to say the right thing or lose business. So Standard & Poors, Fitch and Moody's lined up to give these investments top ratings, that's 'Triple A' in corporate speak. Essentially the ratings agencies were lying on behalf of the investment banks.

 

Investors were reassured by the triple A ratings and couldn't get enough of the securities the investment banks were selling. Now, remember that these securities were actually full of subprime mortgages, mortgages sold to people with no hope of keeping up with their payments. There were a few sound or 'prime' mortgages on the top of the security bundles, but they could in fact be 80% or more subprime.

 

But surely we're only talking about a few mortgages here? Well, no! Enter Derivatives.

 

Remember, a Mortgage Backed Security is a bundle of mortgages, a bundle sold on to investment banks that got their friends over at Fitch and Moody's to securitise them - to give them a top rating. Well, the investment banks began to bundle these mortgage securities up with other debt (such as personal loans, car-loans, credit-card debt, student loans) to create complex derivatives. A derivative is basically a contract that derives its value from the performance of an underlying entity - those loans and mortgages. These derivatives were known as Collateralised Debt Obligations, or CDOs. And, you've guessed it, these CDOs were rated Triple A too!

 

Now, these CDOs were so popular that the investment banks had trouble keeping up with demand. But, and this is the big point, they were a time-bomb. Why, well because those subprime mortgages that made up such a high proportion of those CDOs were bound to fail.

[Cyclone]

Have you watched "The Big Short"?

[Staunton]

Have you watched "The Big Short"?

 

Most certainly, and Inside Job! Both highly recommended!