Public don't want HS2!

[cassity]

The advantage of train travel is that it brings you into or much closer to city centres than planes do.

 

Not short haul internal aircraft, even Sheff airport could accommodate that. You're right on taking you to the center but you have to use a lot of central land to accommodate it, which we already have done.

 

And of course you'd have to build more train lines from the airports to the city centres to get the passengers to and from the new runways.

 

No you don't, you just have to invest and upgrade your present public transport including investment in present rolling stock using existing network lines, not to mention management. Manchester and Heathrow survive with a dedicated shuttle to get their passengers centralised.

 

The UK's land mass is 24 million hectares. As we're only talking about a fraction of that (a thin strip from London to Leeds) you must be imagining some bloody seriously wide trains.

 

Hectares wasn't an exaggeration, it was a mistake (acres). I was in London 5 weeks ago, the train was almost empty, almost the same coming back. People using cars probably took on average an hour longer, didn't persuade them to use the train.

 

Have you seen the size of the US? Have you worked out how many millions of planes it would take to fill the airspace?

 

That was an exaggeration granted but US internal airspace is still pretty busy.

 

We already had massive investment with the 125 and yet we still can't operate like other countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/07/privatised-rail-higher-fares-older-trains

 

I don't see the advantage of gouging out a strip of land from London to Leeds in order to gain 30 mins, or is there a point to that, especially if your destination is Liverpool.

[Annie Bynnol]

Given a choice in 1960 of how to build motorways to the North one group of people said "we do not need motorways all we need to do is increase the capacity of current roads"

 

A1(M) an example of a motorway that has taken 50 years to build, is incomplete, is dangerous and has caused tremendous disruption throughout its history and has had to have parallel motorways built to cope.

[JFKvsNixon]

We already had massive investment with the 125 and yet we still can't operate like other countries.

 

The Intercity 125 is 35/40 years old!

[Annie Bynnol]

We already had massive investment with the 125 and yet we still can't operate like other countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/07/privatised-rail-higher-fares-older-trains

 

I don't see the advantage of gouging out a strip of land from London to Leeds in order to gain 30 mins, or is there a point to that, especially if your destination is Liverpool.

 

Not quite sure if you are referring to the 40 year old "125" HST project or the WCML upgrade failure or the 2 year old random TUC article about privatization or the 20+year old electification of the ECML.

 

I do see the advantage to Liverpool train users.

1- the capacity to more through trains to London using the spaces left by fast Birmingham and Manchester trains.

2- the capacity to stop at more intermediate stations.

3- the capacity to reopen stations on the WCML.

4- the capacity to have faster trains at rush hour.

5- the capacity to carry more freight on rail rather than road

6- the capacity to make connection to SE stations without going in out/across London.

7-the capacity to have real competition between WCML and HS2/Crewe connection.

 

Similar benefits would apply to Sheffield/Doncaster/Leeds users.

[El Cid]

 

£20bn is currently being spent on a new underground for London, don't hear anyone moaning about that!

 

 

Its not a new track tho, or perhaps you know more?

 

Designs for 250 London Underground (LU) trains have been unveiled as part of an upgrade which could cost about £16bn(2014).

[wrinkly67]

Numbers are still being bandied about but it's said that there will be 14 trains per day in each direction, each train capable of carrying up to 1,100 passengers.

Can anyone explain to me?

Who are the tens of thousands of people who are going to regularly need and be able to afford to use these trains in order to keep them profitable (given that many don't run into city centres so that extra bus or taxi journeys eat into the time saved on the train journey and add further to the cost)?

For what purpose would these people be travelling?

IF the rail link were to encourage new businesses to be built on a grand scale "up north", would it encourage southerners to commute each day? Less jobs for our young folks?

Would these people from the south then settle here given how much cheaper houses are? Would that then push up house prices? Less chance of our young folks getting a home of their own?

OR would we see our young folks commute to the capital for the much larger salaries on offer there, giving a brain-drain north to south and adding to the north/south divide?

Either way, what good has it done?

We already have e-mail, fax and phone and technology is advancing all the time. My son works in Canary Wharf and daily has "conference calls" with business associates situated all over the world. So are these trains really needed?

[Longcol]

Its not a new track tho, or perhaps you know more?

 

I think he may have been referring to Crossrail.

 

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/

[ANGELFIRE1]

HS2, the insane dream of an insane man or men.

 

Angel1

[cassity]

The Intercity 125 is 35/40 years old!

 

So will the HS2 by the time it's completed.

[Annie Bynnol]

We already have e-mail, fax and phone and technology is advancing all the time. My son works in Canary Wharf and daily has "conference calls" with business associates situated all over the world. So are these trains really needed?

 

Apparently these people at Canary Wharf cannot use "conference calls" from home as the rest of us have to massively subsidized the nationalized railways that get people to/from Canary Wharf.

 

Docklands- billions

Crossrail 1- billions

Thameslink 1- billions

HS1- Javelin- Billions

Annual subsidy paid to London commuters- billions

LU refurbishment- billions

London Overground -billions

Future Crossrail 2 and Thameslink 2- billions