willman Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 And not ensuring his field is properly fenced? is not a lack of responsibility? Farmland is fenced to mark it from public land and to restrain the animals within it. Anything outside the fence line is Joe Publics responsibility. Even the council won't help install fencing to keep out of control dogs from entering private land. Its like a burglar claiming for injuring himself whilst burgling your home and suing you for damages. They shouldn't be there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peewee84 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It's already the last resort. The law allows them to kill the animal if its on their land without an owner. Signage in many cases states that dogs should be on a lead. The consequences of failing to abide by two simple rules is pretty much common knowledge. There's three warnings for you. If you ignore them or fail to make safe land which is in a rural area then as a last resort your dog will be shot. But what about replying to the part where I mention a different way of dealing with it by paying for damages if it's all about money? It shouldn't be assumed that we're all going to do a runner if our dog causes damage. And the warnings are all well and good, but we are talking about an accident where a dog escaped from a back garden, assuming the owner knew that the dog shouldn't be off-lead but was powerless to stop it on this occasion as he was distracted. Under normal circumstances we assume he knew the rules and wouldn't let his dogs off lead on the field. So the solution is shoot all dogs. Sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, law or not.. How do you scare a dog away in a field that could be as big as several acres? I am sure in the heat of the moment, you would definitely not use compassion, especially if your dog means so much to you. How about with the big shot gun that you keep going on about? Fire it in the air, I'm sure it will be heard, and if he can get close enough to shoot the dog, I'm sure he can get close enough so the shot will be heard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampster Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Farmland is fenced to mark it from public land and to restrain the animals within it. Anything outside the fence line is Joe Publics responsibility. Even the council won't help install fencing to keep out of control dogs from entering private land. Oh, c'mon.. the amount of times I've seen poorly fenced enclosures.. or barely fenced at all relying on natural 'barriers' to save a few quid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Orange Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 How about with the big shot gun that you keep going on about? Fire it in the air, I'm sure it will be heard, and if he can get close enough to shoot the dog, I'm sure he can get close enough so the shot will be heard... Why should the farmer shoot in the air if the dog is already scaring his animals? He has the right to shoot the dog. Besides, there is no certainty that the sound of the shotgun will scare the dog away. The fact of the matter remain, regardless of how the dog got there, dogs that are not in control are a menace to livestock and rightly, the farmer has the right to shoot. If you don't want your dog to be shot, ensure it remains on a lead and/or properly secure your garden so it cannot escape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Orange Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oh, c'mon.. the amount of times I've seen poorly fenced enclosures.. or barely fenced at all relying on natural 'barriers' to save a few quid... Are you sure you are not mistaking land for grazing with arable land. Apart from on the moors and on the peaks, every field I have come across has had sufficient fencing to stop the livestock from escaping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Mod Note Posts deleted for deliberate misquoting. You may not change the meaning of quoted posts, you may trim them or highlight the bits you are responding to but changing the meaning is deliberate misquoting and may lead to your account being suspended if you persist. If you have any doubt whether the edit you want to make will change the meaning of the quote then don't make the edit. If you have any queries, comments or complaints regarding this decision, please direct them to the Helpdesk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 But what about replying to the part where I mention a different way of dealing with it by paying for damages if it's all about money? It shouldn't be assumed that we're all going to do a runner if our dog causes damage. And the warnings are all well and good, but we are talking about an accident where a dog escaped from a back garden, assuming the owner knew that the dog shouldn't be off-lead but was powerless to stop it on this occasion as he was distracted. Under normal circumstances we assume he knew the rules and wouldn't let his dogs off lead on the field. So the solution is shoot all dogs. Sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, law or not.. Sorry I didn't evade it just assumed that it was dealt with by Willman sufficiently enough. I agree, not all owners of dogs avoid responsibility but the fact that some do has created the situation we are in now. It's not so unusual for owners to dispense with their own dog to escape penalty or prosecution for any number of reasons. I wouldn't and you appear honest enough to pay your dues also. Before the law was brought in this may have been the case but not anymore. If and it's a big IF, there were an alternative workable even feasible method; and i really can't be doing with 'scare it away' or 'call it over' then yes it should be looked into. Incidences of dogs being shot are probably rare. In three years there has been no mention of it where I live, so either they have been lucky or people take heed of the consequence. As far as the farmer is concerned, there are no accidental instances, there are only dogs on his land pure and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevvieboi Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 my dogs are never left to roam, they are walked up in the forestry commission where its safe to let them off the lead, their call back is excellent, and very obient, she was the kind of dog that loved meeting new people and animals, loved everything she met, if we ever came anywhere near livestock she was put on the lead, cleaned up after them and prop disposed off, she was 14 months old, i work with dogs for my living and she was being trained to be part of my living, she was a very much loved and adored dog with so much character, worth prob more than 15 of his sheep, but that besides the point, she has never jumped the fence before, she has never ran away before, she they have always played safely in the garden before, this field very rarely gets used for livestock once a month a year if lucky, i have lived here 16 years and never has sheep being in it, its right beside a heavily built up area, where lots of dogs are and loads of peoples gardens are backed onto this field where the sheep will see dogs in peoples gardens, as some farmers rant about just seen a dog is bad for sheep, then is it not that the farmer should also be responsible for his sheep and putting them in this field was not that responsible, the field is a green belt with a public right of way through it, once owned by the coal board, i still have to check if it has being registered for agriculture use, and @ angelfire perhaps she might not have being where she should have being, but at some points in life some adults and kids should not be where they should be, some kids run unruly down streets in supermarkets, but do we shoot them, kids are not watched every second of the day, take your eyes off them for a minute and they are off and getting upto whatever, some cause damage to our own property, but if we try to protect it we end up in court even jail, in my case mine was locked in the back garden while i went after my old collie who had ran out onto the street, and my girl i reckon has looked through the cat flap seen me running out the driveway, and had jumped the fence at the back to try and get to me that way, i can only presume this as they are dogs who never seem to give me a break and are always at my feet, and for this she has being shot dead, farmers just use this now as an excuse, had he followed the guidelines in the nfu, fired above her head, she would have ran for her life she hated loud bangs, as she was just standing their at the time he shot her, had he walked upto her she would have gone to him, but no he shot her dead instead, she did not kill or maul any sheep, they were not lambing yet, i am not trying to stop them from protecting their livestock, but where they are not being mauled or killed then some other alternative should be taken, new guidelines put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampster Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Are you sure you are not mistaking land for grazing with arable land. Apart from on the moors and on the peaks, every field I have come across has had sufficient fencing to stop the livestock from escaping. Because ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Orange Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Because ... I am not saying it doesn't, but I bet you any money, if the livestock causes damage or become a danger then the farmer could be prosecuted. I know of at least one instance where a bull escaped and it was shot by the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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