Shops Asking To Check In Your Bags At Checkouts

[Longcol]

1 minute ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

I'm not sure I understand this, Mr Longcol.

I don't allow random members of the public to wander around my house, but if I did, then I'd certainly make sure they were aware of my 'house rules' before they would be allowed to enter.

If I let a stranger in without telling them they'd be searched before they were allowed to leave, then I don't think I'd be too surprised if they got a bit miffed with me!

Or have I missed your point?

Doesn't matter if  the private premises in question are your house or Meadowhall. People using the private premises have to abide by the rules of the owner (unless the owners rules are illegal eg "no blacks") and the rules don't have to be explicit.

2 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

Ah, sorry. I thought you were saying the shop could have a rule saying 'we can search customers" and that would override their customers' rights to say 'no' to shop staff searching them.

Do you have a right on private premises not to be challenged by the owners  or their employees / agents if they have reasonable grounds to suspects you of eg shoplifting?

 

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/security-guards-shoplifting/

[Carbuncle]

9 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Do you have a right on private premises not to be challenged by the owners  or their employees / agents if they have reasonable grounds to suspects you of eg shoplifting?

 

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/security-guards-shoplifting/

Nope. You can be challenged on the street by the same people.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Carbuncle

[Waldo]

2 hours ago, Longcol said:

I think you mean deny access or ban rather than trespass.

Yeah, I think it's something like a 'notice of trespass', where a landowner legally notifies an individual that they're not allowed on a property and will be trespassing if they enter the property in future etc. Not sure if it's a US or a UK thing though. Whatever though, a store owner is perfectly entitled to ban you from their store, I wouldn't think they need any reason whatsoever to do so.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Waldo

[Dardandec]

Just politely refuse and leave the store. They have no powers and being "suspicious" is not a crime, they would have to have "reasonable grounds" and the only "reasonable grounds" in this situation would be if they actually see you steal something.  They don't even have a right to see your receipt. Detainment and searching without reasonable grounds would be illegal and you would be able to sue them through the civil courts. Public order offence? causing harassment alarm and distress? don't bend over for these bullies. 

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

Doesn't matter if  the private premises in question are your house or Meadowhall. People using the private premises have to abide by the rules of the owner (unless the owners rules are illegal eg "no blacks") and the rules don't have to be explicit.

I'm not sure a person would be bound by T&C's he's not been made aware of! Surely a business has to make their T&C's known to their customers if they are to be bound by them?

 

It's like with private car parks. Where signage is inadequate, or not positioned such that a customer could easily notice; then at court people are not liable to pay parking invoices. I'd expect the same principle would apply with other places of business.

 

5 minutes ago, Dardandec said:

Just politely refuse and leave the store. They have no powers and being "suspicious" is not a crime, they would have to have "reasonable grounds" and the only "reasonable grounds" in this situation would be if they actually see you steal something.  They don't even have a right to see your receipt. Detainment and searching without reasonable grounds would be illegal and you would be able to sue them through the civil courts. Public order offence? causing harassment alarm and distress? don't bend over for these bullies. 

Yes, everything about your part in the interaction should be polite, assertive but not aggressive.

 

Also, I'd be curious as to what civil law recourse may be available to you, suspect it may be more trouble that it's worth (cost wise) though, what do you think?

Edited November 27, 2021 by Waldo

[Longcol]

27 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I'm not sure a person would be bound by T&C's he's not been made aware of! Surely a business has to make their T&C's known to their customers if they are to be bound by them?

 

 

Nope - not on private premises like a supermarket.

 

https://www.talkingretail.com/advice/business-advice/actionline/ban-someone-from-your-store-talking-retails-how-to-guide-30-04-2007/#:~:text=Your shop is private property,someone from entering the premises.&text=There does not have to,%2C disruption%2C drunkenness or drugs.

[Carbuncle]

27 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Also, I'd be curious as to what civil law recourse may be available to you, suspect it may be more trouble that it's worth (cost wise) though, what do you think?

I don't think the civil law would be much help. "Damages" are limited to the value of the damage (you can prove) you have suffered. The relevant branch of law is called tort law. For a start, take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort .

[redruby]

A lot of shops now ask if you want a receipt. I often say no but after reading this I think I’ll take one from now on! 
I worked in a supermarket in my student days and spot check bag searches were done on groups of staff leaving work for the day occasionally. I’ve never heard of it being done to customers though. 
I would agree that in principle it’s not unreasonable for shops to do this. In practice though, it is going to make some people feel uncomfortable and perhaps less inclined to go back to that store in future.  There’s a certain supermarket I only rarely go to as I’ve been aware of security staff in there watching me on several occasions even though I’ve done nothing wrong and wouldn’t shoplift.  It makes me feel uncomfortable, unwelcome and singled out as ‘suspicious’ so regardless of whether it’s justified or not, I choose to spend my money elsewhere wherever possible.  Right or wrong, that’s just how it is and many people feel the same in this situation.

 

[crookesey]

When I worked in retail, some 35 years ago,  store security were only allowed to detain a suspected shoplifter when they had left the premises.. This did have it’s problems in that many younger suspects appeared to have skills attributed to olympic sprinters. 
 

If they did manage to detain a suspect they were only allowed to ask them if they had goods on their person that they hadn’t paid for, most denied any culpability and the police were asked to attend. They hated these calls as the thieves were most often treat very lightly, I recall them calling these punishments ‘slappy wrists’.

 

Things may have changed in the intervening years, but I somehow suspect not in favour of the retailer or the police.

Edited November 28, 2021 by crookesey

[Waldo]

9 hours ago, Longcol said:

Nope - not on private premises like a supermarket.

 

https://www.talkingretail.com/advice/business-advice/actionline/ban-someone-from-your-store-talking-retails-how-to-guide-30-04-2007/#:~:text=Your shop is private property,someone from entering the premises.&text=There does not have to,%2C disruption%2C drunkenness or drugs.

That doesn’t state a customer is bound by T&C’s he has not been made aware of.

 

In fact, the linked article aligns more or less perfectly with what I’ve been saying.