What is equality to you?

[Baron99 812]

5 hours ago, Halibut said:

Try reading this. I think it's pretty good at explaining it and why you are unaware of it - https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/lori-lakin-hutcherson/my-white-friend-asked-me-to-explain-white-privilege-so-i-decide

Well even better, let's go back to the original source, Peggy McIntosh, US, anti-racism & American feminist campaigner who first came up with the term in her published work; "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming to See Correspondences Through Work in Women’s Studies"

 

This has been around since its 1988, (yep, 31 years), publication but hey let's jump on the 'new' term bandwagon. 

 

Question Halibut?  Who exactly is Lori Lakin Hutchison? Is she some American high school student who has just discovered some 30 odd year old material to try & impress her contemporaries?  Hardly original thought is it? 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Baron99

[retep 68]

3 hours ago, Waldo said:

Yes I have. I am openly discriminated against because I'm white and male. I also suspect that plenty of people dislike me, and act unfavourably towards me, precisly because of my skin colour and gender; at least that's been my experience.

Seems to be the case and mostly from white people, strange world init.

[Baron99 812]

4 hours ago, Waldo said:

Yes I have. I am openly discriminated against because I'm white and male. I also suspect that plenty of people dislike me, and act unfavourably towards me, precisly because of my skin colour and gender; at least that's been my experience.

ISomeone once said to me, if you're, male, late teens to pensioner age & white, try walking from one end of Stainforth Rd to the other end on a warm summer evening to see what racial abuse is?

 

Once worked with an openly gay white guy about 8 years ago  whose white husband worked for an insurance company down that way & was beaten up outside his office, surrounded by half a dozen Asians, for as far as he was concerned, being gay.  Police eventually gave up.  One of those things that apparently happen from time to time down that way?

Edited February 28, 2019 by Baron99

[Halibut 12]

55 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Quote

 

Well even better, let's go back to the original source, Peggy McIntosh, US, anti-racism & American feminist campaigner who first came up with the term in her published work; "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming to See Correspondences Through Work in Women’s Studies"

 

This has been around since its 1988, (yep, 31 years), publication but hey let's jump on the 'new' term bandwagon. 

 

No idea what you're trying to say there.

 

Quote

Question Halibut?  Who exactly is Lori Lakin Hutchison? Is she some American high school student who has just discovered some 30 odd year old material to try & impress her contemporaries?  Hardly original thought is it? 

She's a black woman who edits an online thing called Good Black News - it tells you that on the link. Neither she nor I are attempting to claim it's original. Did you watch the video too?

 

29 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

ISomeone once said to me, if you're, male, late teens to pensioner age & white, try walking from one end of Stainforth Rd to the other end on a warm summer evening to see what racial abuse is?

 

Once worked with an openly gay white guy about 8 years ago  whose white husband worked for an insurance company down that way & was beaten up outside his office, surrounded by half a dozen Asians, for as far as he was concerned, being gay.  Police eventually gave up.  One of those things. 

The existence of racial intolerance towards white people, or the idea that Christians aren't the only homophobes doesn't contradict the existence of white privilege - you do get that don't you?

[PRESLEY 1,233]

There is good and bad in every race so people should live and let live, in other words just get on with life because life is short  and we are a long time dead.  And here is a quote from Forest Gumps mother, lifes a box a chocolates ect. 

[WiseOwl182 10]

6 hours ago, Cyclone said:

You've not suffered from discrimination, both open and hidden in the form of bias against you in anything you've ever done.

Are you seriously saying that white males can never be discriminated against?

 

I was once openly, verbally, racially abused by a black person. Was that not discrimination?

[Cyclone 10]

16 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Are you seriously saying that white males can never be discriminated against?

 

I was once openly, verbally, racially abused by a black person. Was that not discrimination?

No, quite clearly didn't say that.

But if you're going to claim that white hetro men suffer more discrimination than women, coloured people or LGBT people then you're off your head.

[Cyclone 10]

2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

ISomeone once said to me, if you're, male, late teens to pensioner age & white, try walking from one end of Stainforth Rd to the other end on a warm summer evening to see what racial abuse is?

 

Once worked with an openly gay white guy about 8 years ago  whose white husband worked for an insurance company down that way & was beaten up outside his office, surrounded by half a dozen Asians, for as far as he was concerned, being gay.  Police eventually gave up.  One of those things that apparently happen from time to time down that way?

Funnily enough I walked 5 miles around Darnall last night, including a lot of Stainforth Rd and quite a few of the back streets and parks, and a bit along the canal.

Wasn't abused at all.

 

We do occasionally get asked if we're police, I generally say yes.

6 hours ago, Waldo said:

Thank you Halibut

 

It's an intereting read; and I can well imagine that's the daily experience for a lot of non-white people. It's not right, and people need to challenge the kind of crappy behaviour described in your linked article.

 

In the article, she makes a number of observations, that we could pick apart one by one. She's sharing her own perspective of course; and it's possible there may be instances of unfavourable treatment that she is attributing to racism, where that's not actually the reason. For example, I'm not saying that racism within the work place doesn't happen, but with the boss episode; how does she know her boss was demeaning her because of her race, and not just because she's the new kid and was challenging his authority or opinion? Anyhow, that's beside the point.

 

One thing I'm stuggling with is this...

 

Because of this 'white privilage' thing, we have positive discrimination, aimed at helping only non-whites or non-males etc. Many of whom will be way better off than people who are not eligible for such aid, and who have not engaged in the kind of behaviour described in your article. How do you justify that?

 

The lady (Lori) writing the article; had a pool as a kid, and went to Harvard. Man I could only dream of being so fortunate in life (and it's not for want of trying).

 

I don't think it's right. Neither do I think mis-treatment of, or dehumanising ANY human being is right either.

You're illustrating another kind of privilege there, the privilege of a wealthy background and upbringing.

Something that white people in the UK are more likely to have than any other demographic.

 

Whenever you mention privilege people become incredibly defensive, as if you've personally attacked them and their achievements.  They come up with counter examples of other people having privilege, but refuse to acknowledge that they have any.

Positive action isn't about addressing privilege anyway, in the case of the police in the most recent case it was to do with addressing an imbalance in their staff representation when compared to the demographics of the society around them.  And they didn't get it right.

[WiseOwl182 10]

18 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

No, quite clearly didn't say that.

But if you're going to claim that white hetro men suffer more discrimination than women, coloured people or LGBT people then you're off your head.

No, quite clearly I didn't say that.

 

But you said, to a white hetero male that you don't know, and therefore made the assumption:

 

"You've not suffered from discrimination, both open and hidden in the form of bias against you in anything you've ever done"

Edited February 28, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Cyclone 10]

And I'd say it again, they haven't.

[WiseOwl182 10]

21 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

And I'd say it again, they haven't.

How do you know? I have.

[Waldo 96]

48 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You're illustrating another kind of privilege there, the privilege of a wealthy background and upbringing.

Something that white people in the UK are more likely to have than any other demographic.

 

Whenever you mention privilege people become incredibly defensive, as if you've personally attacked them and their achievements.  They come up with counter examples of other people having privilege, but refuse to acknowledge that they have any.

Positive action isn't about addressing privilege anyway, in the case of the police in the most recent case it was to do with addressing an imbalance in their staff representation when compared to the demographics of the society around them.  And they didn't get it right.

On average, yes. I would think the average white person is better off than most non-whites. In many instances though, that's not going to be the case.

 

If we accept that non-white people experience more general predjudice in life; that of course is wrong and is something that needs to be addressed. However, I don't see how that in itself justifies letting those people jump the job queue. Maybe there is no logical rational for it; it's just out of some sense of collective guilt or something that white people feel?

 

On the other hand, I would have no problem if help was dished out to people based on individual need (rather than on skin colour, or existence of dangly bits between the legs, or whatever). If based on individual need, some white people would also qualify for help, and some non-white people, would not quality. Not that it matters what I do or don't have a problem with; it's all academic, as I'm not in any position to dictate policy.

 

I also find the term 'white privilege' to be almost a racial slur in itself. It almost suggests that each individual white person is somehow innately racist or guilty of supressing non-white people. What specifically am I doing to merit such a slur?

 

Yeah, I imagine people get defensive because they like to feel they themselves are the architects of their own success; and the fact of the playing field being slanted in their favour, would challange that notion. Maybe I'm getting defensive? I don't know, kinda feels like I'm just trying to articulate where I see injustice.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Waldo