Brexit vote > Trump > Le Pen (?) : worth it ?

[hush]

Why are you linking leave voters as being supporters of Le Pen? Do remain voters not get an opinion?

 

Little did I realise when I voted in the EU referendum that I was contributing to Carrie Fisher's early demise.

[retep]

Ah, yes. Those poor misunderstood fascists. Yes, let's have a fascist in charge of a major European nation - what could possibly go wrong?

I consider myself liberal - please explain why my loathing of fascism and fascists is hypocritical - frankly, I don't see it.

 

A Liberal might declare war on them?

[hush]

Ah, yes. Those poor misunderstood fascists. Yes, let's have a fascist in charge of a major European nation - what could possibly go wrong?

 

I consider myself liberal - please explain why my loathing of fascism and fascists is hypocritical - frankly, I don't see it.

 

I suppose once folk start using words like loathing and hate when refering to others in a democratic society they become part of the problem themselves. Most can't see it though.

[monkey104]

I`m slightly shocked... I`ve just been listening to Radio 4`s "Correspondents Look Ahead To 2017", and one of them made a long shot prediction that Marine Le Pen, a fascist let`s remember, may get in as French President. He thought this could happen on the back of the Brexit vote and the Trump election (many people think the former was crucial to the latter). I have to say I have my doubts that the French NF will get in, the French voting system is very effective at preventing splits causing unexpected upsets and letting extremists in, but the fact a BBC correspondent was even putting it forward as a possibility is very worrying.

 

My question to all those who voted Leave in the Referendum, is this : if Le Pen does get in, along with Trump, was it all worth it ? And if it was worth it, how far would it have to go not to be worth it ? A far right Dutch leader ? A Facist in Germany ? Trade wars ? Actual wars ?[/quote

 

Arse!

[Jpeters]

Ah, yes. Those poor misunderstood fascists. Yes, let's have a fascist in charge of a major European nation - what could possibly go wrong?

 

I consider myself liberal - please explain why my loathing of fascism and fascists is hypocritical - frankly, I don't see it.

 

There are none so blind as those that will not see. Most liberals find it incredibly difficult their own faults.

 

As a liberal you are supposed to respect the beliefs of other people, not just the beliefs of those you agree with. People like you are worse than the people from the EDL who hate Muslims. At least they don't pretend not to be full of hate.

 

If you loathe people for their beliefs, you are a biggot, not a liberal.

[Justin Smith]

Why are you linking leave voters as being supporters of Le Pen? Do remain voters not get an opinion?

 

Breakdown in communication here. I`m not saying that Leave voters are supporters of Le Pen, where did I say that ? I`m not even saying that (most) Leave voters are supporters of Trump. All I`m pointing out is it`s pretty much accepted that the Leave vote encouraged Trump`s band waggon and helped get him elected (remember it was close vote), so was that worth it ? If the same happens with Le Pen`s NF, would that have been worth it too ? If Le Pen gets in I`ll be even more angry about the Leave vote than I already am.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2016 at 18:28 ----------

 

Fascists are people too, I don't like that constant attacking of them. Usually this is done by the "liberals" who fail too see how hypocritical their stance on fascism is.

 

The liberals have done pretty poorly, perhaps it's time to let a fascist have a go in France.

 

I take it you`re being ironic.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2016 at 18:34 ----------

 

You are being incredibly silly, because time will only tell, whether it was worth all the upheaval as a consequence of the UK leaving the EU. Leave voters, voted about the future of the UK and are not responsible for the outcome of any other Nation's election.

 

Perhaps, if Mrs Clinton had been a more trustworthy candidate, then she would have become Madame President soon. However, Donald Trump will be the next President and it looks like closer relations are going to happen, between Russia and America, making wars between the big boys less likely.

 

I`m not being silly at all. I`m stating an accepted fact about the Leave vote encouraging Trump, and probably getting him elected. I`m then extrapolating and asking a reasonable hypothetical question. The fact is you haven`t answered it, not unexpectedly. So let me prove I`m not a hypocrite. If staying in the EU would have caused a war, hypothetically speaking, I`d have wanted to leave. Similarly, if getting fascists elected in European countries had been the result of us staying in the EU, I`d have wanted to leave. As it happens both of these hypothetical circumstances are actually less likely if we`d have voted remain, but I`m just stating unequivocally that I would not have wanted to remain in the EU at any cost. Are there any hard core Brexiteers who are willing to do the same ? Because I don`t actually think I`ve heard them state that.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2016 at 18:37 ----------

 

Arse!

 

That is an unexpectedly poor answer. You`ve not just avoided the question, you`ve been insulting.

One thing I do approve of with the French NF, they have a zero tolerance attitude to crime. They`d get those soddin` noisy motorbikes off the roads. I take it you`d approve ?

Edited December 31, 2016 by Justin Smith

[GLASGOWOODS]

I`m slightly shocked... I`ve just been listening to Radio 4`s "Correspondents Look Ahead To 2017", and one of them made a long shot prediction that Marine Le Pen, a fascist let`s remember, may get in as French President. He thought this could happen on the back of the Brexit vote and the Trump election (many people think the former was crucial to the latter). I have to say I have my doubts that the French NF will get in, the French voting system is very effective at preventing splits causing unexpected upsets and letting extremists in, but the fact a BBC correspondent was even putting it forward as a possibility is very worrying.

 

My question to all those who voted Leave in the Referendum, is this : if Le Pen does get in, along with Trump, was it all worth it ? And if it was worth it, how far would it have to go not to be worth it ? A far right Dutch leader ? A Facist in Germany ? Trade wars ? Actual wars ?

 

 

Radiation is now at a safe level. Tin hat off and come out in the sun.

 

Jeeez! Grow some nads.

[davyboy]

 

You been on the sauce again?

Hendersons or HP?

[monkey104]

Breakdown in communication here. I`m not saying that Leave voters are supporters of Le Pen, where did I say that ? I`m not even saying that (most) Leave voters are supporters of Trump. All I`m pointing out is it`s pretty much accepted that the Leave vote encouraged Trump`s band waggon and helped get him elected (remember it was close vote), so was that worth it ? If the same happens with Le Pen`s NF, would that have been worth it too ? If Le Pen gets in I`ll be even more angry about the Leave vote than I already am.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2016 at 18:28 ----------

 

 

I take it you`re being ironic.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2016 at 18:34 ----------

 

 

I`m not being silly at all. I`m stating an accepted fact about the Leave vote encouraging Trump, and probably getting him elected. I`m then extrapolating and asking a reasonable hypothetical question. The fact is you haven`t answered it, not unexpectedly. So let me prove I`m not a hypocrite. If staying in the EU would have caused a war, hypothetically speaking, I`d have wanted to leave. Similarly, if getting fascists elected in European countries had been the result of us staying in the EU, I`d have wanted to leave. As it happens both of these hypothetical circumstances are actually less likely if we`d have voted remain, but I`m just stating unequivocally that I would not have wanted to remain in the EU at any cost. Are there any hard core Brexiteers who are willing to do the same ? Because I don`t actually think I`ve heard them state that.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2016 at 18:37 ----------

 

 

 

That is an unexpectedly poor answer. You`ve not just avoided the question, you`ve been insulting.

One thing I do approve of with the French NF, they have a zero tolerance attitude to crime. They`d get those soddin` noisy motorbikes off the roads. I take it you`d approve ?

 

I would stick to slagging off German cars and loud motorbikes.

Because the drivel you have just posted there is slightly less credible.

[davyboy]

All I`m pointing out is it`s pretty much accepted that the Leave vote encouraged Trump`s band waggon and helped get him elected (remember it was close vote), so was that worth it ?

 

Do you really believe that?

That's taking the "special relationship" too far

I doubt that the great majority of americans knew we had a referendum let alone were influenced by it!