The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[alchresearch 215]

How's Labour's antisemitism hand waving going?

 

Not well:

 

Jeremy Corbyn was heckled last night at the Jewish Labour Movement’s Chanukah Party and was called a “liar” during a speech in which he claimed there is “zero tolerance” of anti-Semitism in Labour.

 

Another heckler shouted “what about Ken?” and “you hate us” as Corbyn addressed the room. According to the Jewish Chronicle, JLM’s parliamentary chair Luciana Berger was unable to attend. Corbyn at least made an effort, he usually has appointment clashes when it comes to Jewish/Israeli events…

 

https://order-order.com/2017/12/14/corbyn-heckled-chanukah-party/

[Anna B 1,417]

Ok he is the leader of a party that has, you saying that the party is undermining him.

 

He has his own opinions - which everyone is entitled to, but he also listens to what his party and the electorate want.

 

I would have thought that a politician who listens is a good thing.

[ENG601PM 10]

Not well:

 

https://order-order.com/2017/12/14/corbyn-heckled-chanukah-party/

 

Typical dirty tricks from right wing trolls. What would Jews know about antisemitism. Jeremy knows best, he's a decent and honourable man and if he says that there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party and has a report to prove it, then I for one believe him!

[alchresearch 215]

He has his own opinions - which everyone is entitled to, but he also listens to what his party and the electorate want.

 

I would have thought that a politician who listens is a good thing.

 

Yeah, unless its a politician in a party you don't support. Then any evidence of listening and changing things because of public opinion is met with phrases like "embarassing climbdown" or "u-turn".

[Anna B 1,417]

Typical dirty tricks from right wing trolls. What would Jews know about antisemitism. Jeremy knows best, he's a decent and honourable man and if he says that there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party and has a report to prove it, then I for one believe him!

 

At last! You're beginning to see the light....

 

---------- Post added 20-12-2017 at 17:26 ----------

 

Yeah, unless its a politician in a party you don't support. Then any evidence of listening and changing things because of public opinion is met with phrases like "embarassing climbdown" or "u-turn".

 

Feel free to check all my previous posts, but I think you'll find I have never used phrases like 'embarassing climbdown' or 'u-turn.'

I rather admire a politician (any party) who can admit they've made a mistake, or listened to colleagues / electorate and done something about it. They're not infallible

[phil752 10]

and here you go again, demanding i answer your questions, but refusing to answer mine...

you stated "so why is he in favour of Trident"? and i asked the question..."has he said he is in favour of it"? and for post after post you dodged and squirmed the question,

and now you sort of admit that you know Corbyn is not a supporter or Trident and doesnt want it...Hallelujah, we got there in the end, so why did you make such a stupid statement saying "Corbyn was in favour of trident"

So now we have cleared that up, lets go back to your original point, you was responding on behalf of Jonny5 who stated "I share all of those beliefs and I'm 100% sure that Momentum and probably even Corbyn doesn't." and when questioned he couldnt back up his statement with facts, so now you have jumped in saying Corbyn is not a man of principles because his party are keeping Trident..

Well, as you know, of course he is a man of principles, and you know that, you can try to score points, and may even win some points, but deep down you know he is a man of principles. but now he is the leader of the opposition, and with his own party in turmoil and changing from a centrist stand to a left slant, he has to play a very delicate balancing act to keep the party together, and as the leader of the party which is in turmoil, then it has to be expected that he has to make some concessions to keep the party together, he has to stick to some points and let a few others go in the name of party unity, besides, if he didnt do this, he would be labelled a dictator by the right wing media, and to be honest i think he is doing a great job, there are not many people who could have taken the party back to the left without the party self destructing, so back to your last point, you asked if he disagrees with his party, then i think yes he does on that point, that point is accepted by most people who have a basic understanding of politics.

is he still a man of principle? yes of course he is.

has Jonny5 got back to us with an answer, no he hasnt

 

Gosh, you mean that the leader of a party disagrees with his party on a world destruction decision, and you think that this is not a concerning matter, what you really seem to be saying is that he his a puppet, run by unions and who?

[Anna B 1,417]

Gosh, you mean that the leader of a party disagrees with his party on a world destruction decision, and you think that this is not a concerning matter, what you really seem to be saying is that he his a puppet, run by unions and who?

 

It is a 'world destruction decision,' (just think about that for a moment.)

 

I'm glad we have at least one leader who is not gung-ho enough to just go with the prevailing wind and press the button. I'm glad he is prepared to consider every outcome seriously before he acts and only go for the button as a very last resort after all else has failed. Even then, personally, I can't envisage a scenario where that would be the best option. He is a negotiator, and a mediator, but no puppet.

 

The only value of nuclear weapons is as a deterrent, not in their use. As long as other countries think we might use them they are doing their job, and even Jeremy Corbyn has said he might.

[Ridgewalk 102]

What part of me saying that I know I won't convince you or any of Jezzas devoted followers do you not understand?

 

But put it this way, anyone who turns a blind eye to the abuse that Angela Eagles suffered or turns a blind eye to entry-ism does not believe in democracy and is not a man of principle.

 

Like I say though, nothing will convince you.

 

I'll continue to snipe at Jeremy though so deal with it

 

 

You’re talking absolute nonsense. Clearly a Daily Mail, Sun reader

 

---------- Post added 21-12-2017 at 06:08 ----------

 

We all know that Corbyn is in favour of unilateral nuclear disarmament. Let's just put that in the bag and take is as a known fact.

 

Labour Party policy is to renew Trident - missiles, subs, and all they require. That is another known fact.

 

 

This is where we get to Jezza doublespeak, because the entire Labour Party including Corbyn know that unilateral nuclear disarmament is a straight up election loser and any party that puts it in their manifesto isn't getting into government in the UK. So what Corbyn does it to hold his personal position (how can he not as former chair of CND) while acquiescing to the wider wishes of the party, citing democracy or summink. There is no way that a recognisably representative Commons or Lords will ever pass unilateral disarmament legislation.

 

What people need to watch is that Corbyn and McDonnell use Momentum entryism to change the make up of Parliement to suit their minority agenda to go against the will of the UK people. Personally I can't see them winning an election, but they said that in Venezuela too.

 

 

If you think that Momentum are entryists you should brush up on your understanding of politics. Militant were entryists back in the day.

 

How many Daily Mail, Sun readers are there on this thread ?

 

---------- Post added 21-12-2017 at 06:15 ----------

 

What part of me saying that I know I won't convince you or any of Jezzas devoted followers do you not understand?

 

But put it this way, anyone who turns a blind eye to the abuse that Angela Eagles suffered or turns a blind eye to entry-ism does not believe in democracy and is not a man of principle.

 

Like I say though, nothing will convince you.

 

I'll continue to snipe at Jeremy though so deal with it

 

 

Who subjected Angela Eagle to abuse ?

 

Corbyn won two Leadership elections with 66% share of the vote, ergo, 300,000 of the 500,000 of the membership supports him. Are they all “ entryists” ?

[ENG601PM 10]

If you think that Momentum are entryists you should brush up on your understanding of politics. Militant were entryists back in the day.

 

How many Daily Mail, Sun readers are there on this thread ?

Personally, I prefer to reference ideas I've read by Pope, Nietzsche, Huxley, Hitchins, Orwell, Engels, Shakespeare, Harris, Marx, et al rather than Paul Dacre, but you stick to flip-flopping Owen Jones and yummy mummy Zoe Williams if you like.

 

 

Corbyn won two Leadership elections with 66% share of the vote, ergo, 300,000 of the 500,000 of the membership supports him. Are they all “ entryists” ?

If you're impressed by percentages, Theresa May was unopposed in her final membership ballot, that's 100%.

 

But let's look at some other round numbers re Labour entryism.

2015 Labour Party membership 200k

2017 Labour Party membership 500k.

 

Putting aside the day to day corroboration, I'd say there's good statistical reasoning for entryism there. Once the newly politicised students drop away over the next couple of years Labour could well be left with the new militant hardcore, and that's when the trouble really starts. It didn't work out well for hard left Labour in the 80's and we got centrist New Labour to make them electable again.

[banjodeano 31]

Some people can not accept that the Labour Party has now returned to its roots, and that its roots were not sucking up to big businesses, some people can not process that, and they have to make an excuse for it, they have to give it a label, they are entryists, they are trots, they are students, or they are drug fueled momentum anarchists...people pass comment about momentum, but they have never even been to a momentum meeting, they have not been and had a look for themselves,but get their interpretation of momentum members from the daily fail...

I think a lot of people dont honestly know how the party was formed, some people dont even realise that the people like Blair are actually the entryists, they are the ones that had hijacked and taken over the party.

people can not process the fact that the Labour party is increasing its membership daily, and its now become one of the biggest socialist movements in Europe, and that people have now been given hope, whereas before they had Tories or lite Tories...

Ok, i am going to bow out of this merry go round forum for the Christmas period, sometimes i find it a pointless exercise..

whatever political persuasion you are, i wish you all a very Merry Christmas..!!

[ENG601PM 10]

Some people can not accept that the Labour Party has now returned to its roots, and that its roots were not sucking up to big businesses, some people can not process that, and they have to make an excuse for it, they have to give it a label, they are entryists, they are trots, they are students, or they are drug fueled momentum anarchists...people pass comment about momentum, but they have never even been to a momentum meeting, they have not been and had a look for themselves,but get their interpretation of momentum members from the daily fail...

I think a lot of people dont honestly know how the party was formed, some people dont even realise that the people like Blair are actually the entryists, they are the ones that had hijacked and taken over the party.

people can not process the fact that the Labour party is increasing its membership daily, and its now become one of the biggest socialist movements in Europe, and that people have now been given hope, whereas before they had Tories or lite Tories...

Ok, i am going to bow out of this merry go round forum for the Christmas period, sometimes i find it a pointless exercise..

whatever political persuasion you are, i wish you all a very Merry Christmas..!!

 

Labour was formed when men worked naked down pits, steam trains pulled the coal to coking plants, from where it went to the gasworks to create town gas for the single mantle supplementing the candles in back to back courtyard homes, where people shared a water hand pump that spread cholera to the children, who left school at 12 to be indentured to apprentice masters for 8 years, where they would learn industrial processes that would cut short their life at 38, pausing only to produce 5 offspring, 2 of which would die before school age and 1 in an industrial accident before 30.

 

That's my family history, but my family has moved on with the rest of the world.

 

The "Labour is going back its roots" argument is specious. Let's not use it.

[alchresearch 215]

Some people can not accept that the Labour Party has now returned to its roots

 

I don't think it has. You had Old Labour and New Labour.

 

Now you've got a three way split with both of the above, and the Corbynistas.

 

You are mistaken if you think Old Labour is throwing its support behind Corbyn.

 

From the Copeland by-election flop, other articles are on the net in a similar vein.

 

The view from Copeland: 'Lifelong Labour voters want Corbyn out'

 

Just about everyone – Labour people – I’ve spoken to does not like him,” said Christine Curtin, who described herself on Friday as a dyed-in-the-wool Labour voter. The “him” is Jeremy Corbyn.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/24/the-view-from-copeland-lifelong-labour-voters-want-corbyn-out