Ukraine warns Russia against 'aggression' in Crimea

[tzijlstra 11]

What you DID know because people like me tried to tell you, but you refused to accept?

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/06/maddow-tells-jon-stewart-iraq-will-haunt-u-s-until-we-know-why-bush-really-invaded/

 

This thread is quite clearly about the Ukraine, so if you want to debate conspiracy theories, feel free to do so in another thread. I will happily provide my opinion on any theory there.

[mafya 252]

An interesting article I came across regarding the deceit and lies being fed to us regarding the Russia/ukraine situation= http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/ukraine-lies-propaganda-west-age-20145384527678726.html

[Mr Clowning 10]

This thread is quite clearly about the Ukraine, so if you want to debate conspiracy theories, feel free to do so in another thread. I will happily provide my opinion on any theory there.

 

I think that its too easy to label something a 'conspiracy theory' just because you choose not to want to listen to what is being said and form an opinion on that rather than just be a puppet of the media or Governments.

 

Its relevant if the link can be tied in by the poster to what is happening in the Ukraine, no matter how much you personally can't be bothered to look into it. You should let others decide if they think its relevant to the topic or not before shooting it down.

 

Your post smells of 'don't listen to UKIP because it makes you a racist'. People should be able to look at the link and see if its relevant without you deciding we are all nutters if we do.

[tzijlstra 11]

What you DID know because people like me tried to tell you, but you refused to accept?

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/06/maddow-tells-jon-stewart-iraq-will-haunt-u-s-until-we-know-why-bush-really-invaded/

 

I think that its too easy to label something a 'conspiracy theory' just because you choose not to want to listen to what is being said and form an opinion on that rather than just be a puppet of the media or Governments.

 

Its relevant if the link can be tied in by the poster to what is happening in the Ukraine, no matter how much you personally can't be bothered to look into it. You should let others decide if they think its relevant to the topic or not before shooting it down.

 

Your post smells of 'don't listen to UKIP because it makes you a racist'. People should be able to look at the link and see if its relevant without you deciding we are all nutters if we do.

 

Get out of here Clowning, how is that link relevant to this thread?

 

Of course we are being kept in the dark by our governments, this is an energy war, simple as, I coudn't care less what London or Washington or Brussels have to say about it, it is pretty damned obvious that Russia instigated it. People coming on here claiming it is just the West spinning things are deluded. It is all sides in this story.

[Mr Clowning 10]

Get out of here Clowning, how is that link relevant to this thread?

 

Of course we are being kept in the dark by our governments, this is an energy war, simple as, I coudn't care less what London or Washington or Brussels have to say about it, it is pretty damned obvious that Russia instigated it. People coming on here claiming it is just the West spinning things are deluded. It is all sides in this story.

 

I feel that if you heard any side that you are not comfortable it would be a conspiracy theory.

 

Its a cop out to stick that label on things you can't be bothered to look into, its getting used far to often just like the word racist.

[catpus 10]

I feel that if you heard any side that you are not comfortable it would be a conspiracy theory.

 

Its a cop out to stick that label on things you can't be bothered to look into, its getting used far to often just like the word racist.

 

 

Well said Mr Clowning, We/some people rely on the MSM totally to such a degree that they just cannot see the wood for the trees.

I have just looked out this link that I filed two years ago.... to show how bent media really is. You and Mafia may find it interesting.

http://www.voltairenet.org/NATO-preparing-vast-disinformation

 

I think it is very important... for the benefit of all our fellow human beings... that we become better informed, in order to prevent those who want to manipulate us into killing and maiming others to steal their resources.....

[mafya 252]

More interesting points raised in these links =http://www.voltairenet.org/article183620.html

 

http://www.voltairenet.org/article183575.html

Edited May 7, 2014 by mafya

[L00b 441]

More interesting points raised in these links =http://www.voltairenet.org/article183620.html

 

http://www.voltairenet.org/article183575.html

Oleg Zarjow is an ardent pro-Russia politician, no wonder he's been getting it in the neck from Kiev

 

As regards Ron Paul, nice enough nicey-nice thoughts (), but a Sheffield Forum-grade insight into realpolitik: the West withdrawing support for the Ukrainians would see the entire country phagocyted by Russia within 12 months.

 

I might not buy into the ongoing "West good, Russia bad" media propaganda war, but do you (and Ron Paul) honestly believe Putin would be happy with anything other than a remote-controlled goon à la Yanukovych at the helm in Ukraine?

 

It's not even nation state-level, but international-level realpolitik and brinksmanship going on there, done by anything other than amateurs, so don't expect either side to lay their cards out on the table for all to see how the game is going to be played anytime soon. We're being mushroomed, heck I'm sure even the Kiev government is being mushroomed, so it's pointless trying to decide who's right and who's wrong right now.

[tzijlstra 11]

I feel that if you heard any side that you are not comfortable it would be a conspiracy theory.

 

Its a cop out to stick that label on things you can't be bothered to look into, its getting used far to often just like the word racist.

 

I really, really haven't got a single clue what you are talking about. You are discussing a post of mine where I debunk someone who comes on here and starts bleating on about conspiracy theories that are based on less than reputable news sources and then when I tell you to get out of here, claim I am comfortable with conspiracy theories?

 

Try harder fella.

[Mr Clowning 10]

I really, really haven't got a single clue what you are talking about. You are discussing a post of mine where I debunk someone who comes on here and starts bleating on about conspiracy theories that are based on less than reputable news sources and then when I tell you to get out of here, claim I am comfortable with conspiracy theories?

 

Try harder fella.

 

I claimed you were UN-comfortable with them if anything, at least get right what you mean.

 

Try harder whatever you are

[tzijlstra 11]

Well, looks like the East Ukrainians have decided to have a referendum despite being told not to by Putin.

 

I am really unsure where this will lead but hope it won't be seized as an opportunity by Putin to plant another Russian flag, that would likely mean full-out war...

[catpus 10]

>>Tthe West withdrawing support for the Ukrainians would see the entire country phagocyted by Russia within 12 months. <<

 

So - what has that to do with us?

 

>>I might not buy into the ongoing "West good, Russia bad" media propaganda war, but do you (and Ron Paul) honestly believe Putin would be happy with anything other than a remote-controlled goon Yanukovych at the helm in Ukraine? <<

 

Again - what has that to do with you/us?

 

>>It's not even nation state-level, but international-level realpolitik and brinksmanship going on there, done by anything other than amateurs, so don't expect either side to lay their cards out on the table for all to see how the game is going to be played anytime soon. We're being mushroomed, heck I'm sure even the Kiev government is being mushroomed, so it's pointless trying to decide who's right and who's wrong right now<<

 

CORRECT!

 

 

Residents of Crimea voted on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

 

These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

 

What is the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote, like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centrepiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

 

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

 

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

 

Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine’s government should refocus their energies on learning their own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors.

 

Though the Obama administration has applied some minimal sanctions on 'selected' Russian and Crimean individuals, neither the U.S. nor the EU can afford significant sanctions against Russia. Global trade provides too much economic benefit to both sides.

 

Indeed, international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity. Let’s hope governments will follow their lead.

 

Ron Paul