Are we living in a classless society? Does class still matter?

[nick2 10]

You do tend to find the only people bothered about class thesedays are those that think they are in the upper classes.

[foo_fighter 10]

Originally posted by nick2

You do tend to find the only people bothered about class thesedays are those that think they are in the upper classes.

...or those that "think" they're in the middle classes.

[dawny1 10]

Glad I made sense. Staying at home makes your brain turn to mush going on the forum is slowly re-activating my brain cells so these discussions keep me sane.

 

A friend of mine did exactly what you said Cyclone. She was very working class and so was her husband. She worked a lot of jobs purely to pay for her kids to have private education and they ended up talking completely differently to their parents who had very broad accents.

 

When the school had parents meetings they felt extremely out of place amongst the other parents and sadly their own children ended up feeling embarrassed by their upbringing.

[Bedhead 10]

I think the whole issue regarding class leads to dangerous assertions -

 

Defining an underclass for example can lead to afflicting and stigmatising of such people. e.g ''crime is high among the 'underclass' because they're always skint, jobless''.

 

As aside issue I do think to some extent though that classes are becoming less distinguishable in society as people comparitively, have more disposable income and (easier) opportunities these days to apply themselves, self-betterment, aspirations - being born into a 'working class' family doesn't necessarily mean you'll die in/with a 'working class' family

[timo 10]

All human societies are stratified, in other words, people are pigeonholed by those in positions of power. There are various systems of stratification. The best known one is the Registrar General's system, which defines class in relation to occupation. It lists eight classes [replacing the old A, B C1 D etc system]. I believe that Professionals, such as University lecturers, higher managerial staff etc are listed as 'social class1'. Oddly, self-employed businessmen [and the example is a driving instructor] are class 6. Bottom of the pile are the 'Underclass' at number 8; the long-term sick and long-term unemployed. This latter case is a good example of a sociological term becoming institutionalised.

 

It is possible for one to be socio-economically one class, and culturally quite something else. Hence, a Bank branch manager might be defined as class 2 because of his occupation, but yet his 'cultural interests' revolve around stereotypically 'working class' pursuits such as the betting shop , and his 'cultural capital' extends only to 'low art' and popular entertainment, such as the music of the charts, and TV 's 'soap operas'.

[themonkey 10]

Personally, I'm well class, innit.

[Kezza1 10]

look at he evidence ? .................. the upper classes have both social and political poer although it could be argued its the same? ...... i do believe in Marx there is no such thing as the middle class you are made to think there is so the fighting going on between the classes takes away from the fact that the Queen has a man to play around with her clocks .......by the way your tax money pays for that!....... ofcourse there is class upper and working if you workfor a living you working class ........i wouldnt dream of associating myself with the middle class agents of the upper class

[t020 11]

Originally posted by foo_fighter

Not in my opinion, the key part for me was "...I earn...", that makes you working class.

 

My father always used to say,

 

"If you have to work for a living, your working class...

 

...if you own a business, and other people do the work for you, your middle class...

 

...and the upper class… …they do naff all."

 

(or words to that effect)

 

I still think there's a lot of truth in that statement, even if "Her Maggieness" tried to convince us we were all middle class, and should therefore vote for her / the Tories.

 

 

So a corner shop owner is middle class but an Oxford educated barrister from Windsor who *earns* a healthy salary is working class? Twaddle.

[nick2 10]

Originally posted by t020

an Oxford educated barrister from Windsor who *earns* a healthy salary is working class? Twaddle.

 

Does he work for a living ?

[foo_fighter 10]

Originally posted by t020

So a corner shop owner is middle class but an Oxford educated barrister from Windsor who *earns* a healthy salary is working class? Twaddle.

t020, try to read what I actually said please.

 

The Barrister works for a living, put that into one of my categories, yes, working class.

 

The shop owner also works for a living, so, also working class.

 

If Sir Alan Sugar allows employees to run his business, then he'd be in "middle", if he goes to work every day he's in "working", he's in the (fortunate?) position to be able to choose, the corner shop owner, and the barrister are not.

 

Basically look at it this way, if you choose whether to go to work in the morning or not, you can be "middle". If you "have to" get up and go to work to earn a living, sorry but your working class.

 

IMO

[foo_fighter 10]

Originally posted by t020

So a corner shop owner is middle class but an Oxford educated barrister from Windsor who *earns* a healthy salary is working class? Twaddle.

Oh, and on another point, what has "Oxford educated" or "from Windsor" got to do with class anyway?

 

I think somebody is being a little bit Hyacinth Boo-quet out there.

[t020 11]

Originally posted by foo_fighter

t020, try to read what I actually said please.

 

The Barrister works for a living, put that into one of my categories, yes, working class.

 

The shop owner also works for a living, so, also working class.

 

If Sir Alan Sugar allows employees to run his business, then he'd be in "middle", if he goes to work every day he's in "working", he's in the (fortunate?) position to be able to choose, the corner shop owner, and the barrister are not.

 

Basically look at it this way, if you choose whether to go to work in the morning or not, you can be "middle". If you "have to" get up and go to work to earn a living, sorry but your working class.

 

IMO

 

 

 

My own personal definition would put him as working class and the barrister as middle class. If your definition is right, Britain would have a "middle class" of around 10,000 people since there aren't many Alan Sugars (who incidentally I'd define as working class) who direct large business empires and don't have to work, an upper class of a few thousand and a working class of over 59 million. This simply isn't true, IMO.