Neoliberalism and the AI apocalypse

[Staunton]

In a chilling warning of the dangers inherent in the continuing development of artificial intelligence on Newsnight (BBC2, Friday 17 May, 10:30pm), former Vice President of google, Geoffrey Hinton, tells presenter Faisal Islam about his fears. And in so doing, he reveals one of the central secrets that operates within the prevailing neoliberal system. I present the relevant parts of the exchange below.

 

(20:05 - 21:37) Faisal Islam: What sort of society do you see evolving? Which jobs will still be here?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, I'm very worried about AI taking over lots of mundane jobs, and that should be a good thing. It's going to lead to a big increase in productivity, which leads to a big increase in wealth, and if that wealth was equally distributed that would be great, but it's not going to be. In the systems we live in, that wealth is going to go to the rich and not to the people whose jobs get lost, and that's going to be very bad for society I believe.

 

Hinton goes on to relate one of his particular fears:

 

Geoffrey Hinton: It's going to increase the gap between rich and poor, which increases the chances of right wing populists getting elected.

 

Then he gives his support to a Universal Basic Income, which no doubt angered the the Downing Street people who sought Hinton's advice.

 

Faisal Islam: So, to be clear, you think that the societal impacts from the changes in jobs could be so profound that we may need to rethink the politics of the benefit system, inequality...

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Absolutely, yes.

 

Faisal Islam: Universal basic income?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, I certainly believe in universal basic income. I don't think that's enough though, because a lot of people get their self respect from the jobs they do, and if you put everybody on universal basic income that solves the problem of them starving and not being able to pay the rent, but it doesn't solve the self respect problem.

 

Faisal Islam: So, what, you just try to, the government needs to get in with it. It's not how we do things in Britain, you know, we tend to sort of stand back and let the economy decide the winners and losers. [Note: there's Islam himself giving away another sneering aspect of that same neoliberal strategy. That's not something we generally expect from a BBC presenter. Oops.]

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, actually I was consulted by people in Downing Street, and I advised them universal basic income was a good idea.
 

(22:56 - 23:52) Faisal Islam: People, parents, talk to their children, give them advice on the future of the economy, what jobs they should do, what degrees they should do. It seems like the world's being thrown up in the air by this, by the world that you're describing. What would you advise somebody to study now to surf this wave?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: I don't know, because it's clear that a lot of mid-level intellectual jobs are going to disappear. I mean if you ask which jobs are safe. My best bet about a job that's safe is plumbing, because these things aren't yet very good at physical manipulation. That'll probably be the last thing they're very good at. So I think plumbing is going to be safe for quite a long time.

 

Faisal Islam: Driving?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Driving, that's been slower than expected.

 

Faisal Islam: Journalism?

 

Hinton ends with an uncomfortable thought for Faisal, along with the other eight million employees at risk of redundancy that he mentioned in his introduction (not transcribed here) to the interview.

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Erm, journalism might last for a little bit longer, but I think these things are going to be pretty good journalists quite soon. Probably quite good interviewers too.

 

It's necessary to overlook that rather romantic nobility of work notion that Hinton indulges. I'm sure his position at google was rather more rewarding in so many ways than a night shift in an amazon warehouse or the unforgiving demands that  call centre personnel are expected to meet. Nevertheless, such revelations as those that feature in his message, from someone fully acquainted with the ways of wealth and opportunity, help us to connect the dots and notice that our poverty is planned.

[SheffieldForum]

I watched this interview — very thought provoking.

[El Cid]

11 hours ago, Staunton said:

Geoffrey Hinton: It's going to increase the gap between rich and poor, which increases the chances of right wing populists getting elected.

 

Then he gives his support to a Universal Basic Income, which no doubt angered the the Downing Street people who sought Hinton's advice.

 

Faisal Islam: So, to be clear, you think that the societal impacts from the changes in jobs could be so profound that we may need to rethink the politics of the benefit system, inequality...

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Absolutely, yes.

 

Faisal Islam: Universal basic income?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, I certainly believe in universal basic income. I don't think that's enough though, because a lot of people get their self respect from the jobs they do, and if you put everybody on universal basic income that solves the problem of them starving and not being able to pay the rent, but it doesn't solve the self respect problem.

 

 

UBI may be the future, but that implies that people will not be working. People will still need to 'work'.

[redruby]

On 18/05/2024 at 21:55, Staunton said:

In a chilling warning of the dangers inherent in the continuing development of artificial intelligence on Newsnight (BBC2, Friday 17 May, 10:30pm), former Vice President of google, Geoffrey Hinton, tells presenter Faisal Islam about his fears. And in so doing, he reveals one of the central secrets that operates within the prevailing neoliberal system. I present the relevant parts of the exchange below.

 

(20:05 - 21:37) Faisal Islam: What sort of society do you see evolving? Which jobs will still be here?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, I'm very worried about AI taking over lots of mundane jobs, and that should be a good thing. It's going to lead to a big increase in productivity, which leads to a big increase in wealth, and if that wealth was equally distributed that would be great, but it's not going to be. In the systems we live in, that wealth is going to go to the rich and not to the people whose jobs get lost, and that's going to be very bad for society I believe.

 

Hinton goes on to relate one of his particular fears:

 

Geoffrey Hinton: It's going to increase the gap between rich and poor, which increases the chances of right wing populists getting elected.

 

Then he gives his support to a Universal Basic Income, which no doubt angered the the Downing Street people who sought Hinton's advice.

 

Faisal Islam: So, to be clear, you think that the societal impacts from the changes in jobs could be so profound that we may need to rethink the politics of the benefit system, inequality...

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Absolutely, yes.

 

Faisal Islam: Universal basic income?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, I certainly believe in universal basic income. I don't think that's enough though, because a lot of people get their self respect from the jobs they do, and if you put everybody on universal basic income that solves the problem of them starving and not being able to pay the rent, but it doesn't solve the self respect problem.

 

Faisal Islam: So, what, you just try to, the government needs to get in with it. It's not how we do things in Britain, you know, we tend to sort of stand back and let the economy decide the winners and losers. [Note: there's Islam himself giving away another sneering aspect of that same neoliberal strategy. That's not something we generally expect from a BBC presenter. Oops.]

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Yes, actually I was consulted by people in Downing Street, and I advised them universal basic income was a good idea.
 

(22:56 - 23:52) Faisal Islam: People, parents, talk to their children, give them advice on the future of the economy, what jobs they should do, what degrees they should do. It seems like the world's being thrown up in the air by this, by the world that you're describing. What would you advise somebody to study now to surf this wave?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: I don't know, because it's clear that a lot of mid-level intellectual jobs are going to disappear. I mean if you ask which jobs are safe. My best bet about a job that's safe is plumbing, because these things aren't yet very good at physical manipulation. That'll probably be the last thing they're very good at. So I think plumbing is going to be safe for quite a long time.

 

Faisal Islam: Driving?

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Driving, that's been slower than expected.

 

Faisal Islam: Journalism?

 

Hinton ends with an uncomfortable thought for Faisal, along with the other eight million employees at risk of redundancy that he mentioned in his introduction (not transcribed here) to the interview.

 

Geoffrey Hinton: Erm, journalism might last for a little bit longer, but I think these things are going to be pretty good journalists quite soon. Probably quite good interviewers too.

 

It's necessary to overlook that rather romantic nobility of work notion that Hinton indulges. I'm sure his position at google was rather more rewarding in so many ways than a night shift in an amazon warehouse or the unforgiving demands that  call centre personnel are expected to meet. Nevertheless, such revelations as those that feature in his message, from someone fully acquainted with the ways of wealth and opportunity, help us to connect the dots and notice that our poverty is planned.

It is very interesting but good luck trying to convince any neoliberal types on here that concern themselves more with people ‘picking on’ on the poor ickle diddums billionaires than people whose wages are so pitiful they have to be topped up by the taxpayer! 

[Anna B]

On 19/05/2024 at 09:24, El Cid said:

 

UBI may be the future, but that implies that people will not be working. People will still need to 'work'.

People need to ask pensioners whether life is better with no work, some work, volunteering etc.

In my experience many 'workless' pensioners find there aren't enough hours in the day to get all the things they want to do, done. The difference is the  freedom to choose.  

It's all very well working if you have a job you enjoy, but I wonder how many that actually applies to, especially these days, when a lot of people hate their jobs.   

[RollingJ]

12 minutes ago, Anna B said:

People need to ask pensioners whether life is better with no work, some work, volunteering etc.

In my experience many 'workless' pensioners find there aren't enough hours in the day to get all the things they want to do, done. The difference is the  freedom to choose.  

It's all very well working if you have a job you enjoy, but I wonder how many that actually applies to, especially these days, when a lot of people hate their jobs.   

How many have you asked?

[Anna B]

52 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

How many have you asked?

 

'Hate' is perhaps too strong a word, but I've asked many people over the years, and have only met a few who actually 'love' their work. For most it's a means to an end, they work for the money.  Pay is the key.

 

Many people do the 'mundane' jobs for not much reward. The creative, attractive, well paid jobs tend to be far fewer, and self employment comes with many money worries, stress and anxiety for anyone totally depending on the income. Probably why since lockdown some people are refusing to o back to the rat race.

 

But the other benefits of working, eg, companionship, stimulation, purpose  and fullfilment can be obtained in other ways which is why non working people and  pensioners enjoy voluntary work of their choice. Ask them if they would go back to full time working employment, and the answer is invariably no. 

 

Not many Lottery winners continue working in their old jobs do they... ? 

Most reinvent thmselves doing something they enjoy.

 

 

 

  

 

[Baron99]

8 hours ago, redruby said:

It is very interesting but good luck trying to convince any neoliberal types on here that concern themselves more with people ‘picking on’ on the poor ickle diddums billionaires than people whose wages are so pitiful they have to be topped up by the taxpayer! 

Name me a billionaire that started out a billionaire? 

 

I could probably give you a long list of idle, working age, society slackers, who contribute nothing but who's benefits are topped up by hardworking taxpayers, week in, week out, that you feign concern about. 

[HairFarceOne]

35 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Name me a billionaire that started out a billionaire? 

 

I could probably give you a long list of idle, working age, society slackers, who contribute nothing but who's benefits are topped up by hardworking taxpayers, week in, week out, that you feign concern about. 

A quick google (other search engines are available) gives us;

[Baron99]

5 minutes ago, HairFarceOne said:

A quick google (other search engines are available) gives us;

Ok.  From that list above How many started out with a billion?  I'll take Dollars or Sterling.  Rupees don't count. 

 

I await your response or realisation that you've not understood my question but just Googled, which billionaires inherited money?