British Post Office Scandal

[Organgrinder 1,946]

1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

Thank you for saying I am correct - it makes a change.

You may be correct about the rest, but I am not prepared to get into a political debate - I am only interested in the technical aspect.

It's not about political debate but about right and wrong and people from all sides should see that we need massive change to make things work for the benefit of the country,

rather than the benefit of a company who everyone must depend on whether they like it or not,   and the benefit of a technology supplier who is too close to the top circles of government.

Both are only interested in their own interests and both are willing to break the law to uphold those interests.

I am not interested in arguing with you in particular,  who always sees it as personal,   but in addressing a massive failing in leading companies,  and in government who have sat back and let it roll on,

resulting in many peoples lives being ruined, and some lost altogether whilst the fabric of our country becomes a laughing stock and a disgrace for a country which is not supposed to be a banana republic.

 

[RollingJ 2,066]

57 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

...

I am not interested in arguing with you in particular,  who always sees it as personal, 

...

 

 

I didn't take it personally, just stated my point.

[Baron99 812]

Senior management from Fujitsu will be appearing before a Parliamentary Committee today so it was fascinating to see a report on BBC Business News this morning by their BBC Asia correspondent. 

 

The BBC reporter has repeatedly asked senior management from Fujitsu in Japan for an interview on the Horizon IT matter but her requests have not even been acknowledged by Fujitsu.  According to the BBC reporter this is traditionally what happens when Japanese companies & Japanese management find themselves in trouble, there's a total lockdown on all discussion of the issue & they just hunker down.

 

From what little has come out, it appears that Fujitsu considered the problem a ICL matter as they were the one's who built Horizon & Fujitsu merely bought ICL as a way of getting into the UK market. 

 

The silence on the matter in Japan is compounded by the fact that NHK, the Japanese equivalent of the BBC, has not broadcast any reports on the matter & the story is just tucked away on their Internet pages.  As yet its a non-story in Japan & very few Japanese have even heard of the Horizon IT scandal involving one of Japan's major companies. 

 

 

Edited January 16 by Baron99

[El Cid 221]

16 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

The silence on the matter in Japan is compounded by the fact that NHK, the Japanese equivalent of the BBC, has not broadcast any reports on the matter & the story is just tucked away on their Internet pages.  As yet its a non-story in Japan & very few Japanese have even heard of the Horizon IT scandal involving one of Japan's major companies. 

 

The scandal is how the problems were investigated and covered up, not sure they can blame Fujitsu?

[Organgrinder 1,946]

2 hours ago, El Cid said:

The scandal is how the problems were investigated and covered up, not sure they can blame Fujitsu?

The scandal IS how the problems were investigated and covered up but Fujitsu still has to take it's share of the blame.

If their computers and software had worked properly,  there would not have been any kind of scandal in the first place.

 

If a cars brakes had failed and killed people, due to a manufacturing process,  who would you blame but those who designed,  built,  and sold the car.

 

Fujitsu,  The Post Office,  and British Government,  all share some part of the blame and those who are still handing out contracts to Fujitsu need to explain themselves.

 

[El Cid 221]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

The scandal IS how the problems were investigated and covered up but Fujitsu still has to take it's share of the blame.

If their computers and software had worked properly,  there would not have been any kind of scandal in the first place.

 

If a cars brakes had failed and killed people, due to a manufacturing process,  who would you blame but those who designed,  built,  and sold the car.

Fujitsu,  The Post Office,  and British Government,  all share some part of the blame and those who are still handing out contracts to Fujitsu need to explain themselves.

I agree that they all share some responsibility, but mistakes are made in many things and the dealer/intermediatory should deal with them.

Watching the drama, it seemed like it was a hard ware problem, when there was more than one terminal. Were they even pluged in properly!

Edited January 16 by El Cid

[Anna B 1,417]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

The scandal IS how the problems were investigated and covered up but Fujitsu still has to take it's share of the blame.

If their computers and software had worked properly,  there would not have been any kind of scandal in the first place.

 

If a cars brakes had failed and killed people, due to a manufacturing process,  who would you blame but those who designed,  built,  and sold the car.

 

Fujitsu,  The Post Office,  and British Government,  all share some part of the blame and those who are still handing out contracts to Fujitsu need to explain themselves.

 

The fact that another company is involved (Fujitsu) just gives the miscreants the opportunity for obfuscation and endless buck passing back and forth. 

Public Enquiries are all very well but how often does the responsibility for the troubles land on the heads of those involved, and more importantly end with those personally responsible paying for their crimes?

And make no mistake, the cover up, affecting the lives of so many innocent people, was a crime, not just an unfortunate mistake. It was knowingly done.

 

[Organgrinder 1,946]

Just now, El Cid said:

I agree that they all share some responsibility, but mistakes are made in many things and the dealer/intermediatory should deal with them.

If a serious incident occurs and lives are lost and ruined,  it's the manufacturers fault.

If this same thing reoccurs over and over again then manifestly so.

[RJRB 688]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

If a serious incident occurs and lives are lost and ruined,  it's the manufacturers fault.

If this same thing reoccurs over and over again then manifestly so.

That is true and I think that Fujitsu have today admitted some moral responsibility whatever that might mean.

However if you as a business commission a service or equipment then there comes a point in time when the contract is signed off as being accepted.

Responsibility reverts to those who signed it off which in this case must be The Post Office.

I assume that Fujitsu had some ongoing service contract which should have been working in conjunction with feedback from Post Office Engineers.

[alchresearch 215]

Any coders on here?  This is pretty shocking

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fthis-is-a-real-code-review-submitted-to-the-public-enquiry-v0-q5851pj522cc1.png%3Fs%3Ddb189b183464056777be2943c23e146f9bb268ad

[cuttsie 1,093]

Did them there dodgy computers ever put lots of money into those accounts , You would think it would work both ways .

[Organgrinder 1,946]

5 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Did them there dodgy computers ever put lots of money into those accounts , You would think it would work both ways .

Computers don't work in the same way as people so it depends on how the software is written.

Again,  it's not the computer which makes mistakes,  it's the software program it's running and that's dependant on the  "clever ?"  people who wrote it.