Theresa May has not ruled out yet more cuts for the disabled!

[silentP 10]

You're at work early.

 

It's not a specific warning, it's a general one. This kind of thing could be an indicator of continuation of austerity policies for example. Will the continuation of austerity be in the Tory manifesto....

 

I know, my shift pattern determines my free time

 

Well seeing as austerity was a European measure who knows. There'll always be cuts. One hand gives, the other takes doesn't it no matter which paper hat runs the country.

[I1L2T3 10]

I know, my shift pattern determines my free time

 

Well seeing as austerity was a European measure who knows. There'll always be cuts. One hand gives, the other takes doesn't it no matter which paper hat runs the country.

 

Oh right, what shift pattern is unbeliever on now? Say hi for me.

 

Austerity in the U.K. was a direct result of the 2008 crisis. The EU did not enforce it on the UK so don't lie about that.

 

Yes there will always be cuts but adjustments to the budget, but any programme of austerity has to have limits. To keep on targeting the same groups and sectors parliament after parliament is unfair.

[silentP 10]

Back on the unbeliever thing are we. It's ok to admit you're wrong you know.

[I1L2T3 10]

Back on the unbeliever thing are we. It's ok to admit you're wrong you know.

 

Well the problem is that posting lies and personal opinion as unequivocal fact is exactly what unbeliever does.

 

And you just did exactly that by stating that austerity is an EU measure.

 

Sorry, I want to believe you but you're not making it easy.

[L00b 441]

Well seeing as austerity was a European measure who knows.

Austerity measures, wherever they have been implemented in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, have only ever been national government measures.

 

Some measures may have been implemented as conditions of bail outs (including EU and/or IMF bail outs), as seen most visibly in Greece. But still, always at the hand of governments, democratically elected and so free to implement austerity policies or not under their mandate.

 

In that context at least, the analogy with personal or household finances holds completely true: the more profligate and careless you get with your finance (and Greece had been very profligate, one might say it was the epitome of financial recklessness ever since joining the €zone), the harder the eventual reckoning, and the more numerous and thicker the strings by your financier to get you back onto the straight and narrow...or starve in the street, your choice.

 

The UK wasn't bailed out by the EU in the least, it bailed itself out with its own banknote printing presses, and took no conditions or policies or other constraints from the EU in that respect (since the UK had never aligned with the EU's financial controls before the crisis or since).

 

The UK (Tory-LibDem coalition) government chose to help the EU bail out the Republic of Ireland (2010) and Portugal (2011), besides obtaining a get-out-jail-free card from the EU about any €zone bailouts.

 

And if you think the UK has suffered austerity measures since 2008, you really ought to read some more news, preferably from reputable sources. That is not meant to take anything away from the poor, the disabled, the elderly and others dependent on the State, who have genuinely suffered at the hands of IDS and his ilk since 2008...but the fact of the matter is, in comparison to other countries, the UK (services, population) got off lightly.

 

Back on topic, well...a majority of voters voted for it in 2010, a bigger majority did again in 2015, et bis repetita for the harder version without safety lines in 2016, and my guess is they will ask for still more of it in a month's time.

 

Populations get the government they deserve. 'tis democracy, innit'

Edited May 11, 2017 by L00b

[Cyclone 10]

They have not got any source all made up.The cons have not announced their manifesto so this is fake news.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-disability-cuts-tories-election-benefits-welfare-a7729096.html

 

Stick that in your fake news pipe and smoke it.

 

Theresa May has refused to rule out making further cuts to disability benefits in the next Parliament if the Conservatives are returned to government.

 

Asked by The Independent at a campaign event in Mansfield whether she would rule out any further cuts to support, the Prime Minister avoided giving a direct answer.

 

She was asked and refused to rule it out.

[silentP 10]

Well the problem is that posting lies and personal opinion as unequivocal fact is exactly what unbeliever does.

 

And you just did exactly that by stating that austerity is an EU measure.

 

Sorry, I want to believe you but you're not making it easy.

 

I prefer to call it a fabrication of the truth, but point taken, I've checked and greedy banking is the root problem it would seem. Now there's no way unbeliever would have conceded so readily that's a fact!

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2017 at 09:35 ----------

 

Austerity measures, wherever they have been implemented in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, have only ever been national government measures.

 

Some measures may have been implemented as conditions of bail outs (including EU and/or IMF bail outs), as seen most visibly in Greece. But still, always at the hand of governments, democratically elected and so free to implement austerity policies or not under their mandate.

 

In that context at least, the analogy with personal or household finances holds completely true: the more profligate and careless you get with your finance (and Greece had been very profligate, one might say it was the epitome of financial recklessness ever since joining the €zone), the harder the eventual reckoning, and the more numerous and thicker the strings by your financier to get you back onto the straight and narrow...or starve in the street, your choice.

 

The UK wasn't bailed out by the EU in the least, it bailed itself out with its own banknote printing presses, and took no conditions or policies or other constraints from the EU in that respect (since the UK had never aligned with the EU's financial controls before the crisis or since).

 

The UK (Tory-LibDem coalition) government chose to help the EU bail out the Republic of Ireland (2010) and Portugal (2011), besides obtaining a get-out-jail-free card from the EU about any €zone bailouts.

 

And if you think the UK has suffered austerity measures since 2008, you really ought to read some more news, preferably from reputable sources. That is not meant to take anything away from the poor, the disabled, the elderly and others dependent on the State, who have genuinely suffered at the hands of IDS and his ilk since 2008...but the fact of the matter is, in comparison to other countries, the UK (services, population) got off lightly.

 

Back on topic, well...a majority of voters voted for it in 2010, a bigger majority did again in 2015, et bis repetita for the harder version without safety lines in 2016, and my guess is they will ask for still more of it in a month's time.

 

Populations get the government they deserve. 'tis democracy, innit'

 

Hello, yes, yes read stuff I will but there's a shed load to take in

[onewheeldave 22]

Have you ever thought that yes, some innocents may have been caught up in the PIP debacle but then again do we know how many people have been reviewed and refused further payments due to their mobility improving or not relying on their carer as much?

Don't forget that there are different components to PIP, not just a mobility car.

My wife has recently been reviewed and as we suspected she has had her mobility cut but her carers allowance raised.

We are grateful for the allowance given by the state to assist my wife in her mobility but are more thankful that she has regained mobility.

I am sorry for the few that may have been wrongly diagnosed as not requiring PIP payment but, how many feel aggrieved because they have been receiving it that long that it actually feels more like a right to the payments and just factor that money in to their normal income.

This is not a gripe at ' undeserving claimants' just a reminder that not everyone who has been denied further PIP payments may require it.

 

Few?

 

The list I linked to was 80 people dead as a direct result of being found capable of work by ATOS- most of them committed suicide, a few of them starved to death-

Mark Wood, 44. Found fit for work by Atos, against his Doctors advice and assertions that he had complex mental health problems. Starved to death after benefits stopped, weighing only 5st 8lb when he died.

 

(Just to head off potential further apologism, I'll admit that yes, there are 'food banks' in the UK, but, like many 'support systems', many with mental health issues are unable to access them).

 

So that's 80. And I've got a couple of other long lists of people dead after being abused by ATOS.

 

But if those are too 'few' for you to take seriously, how about the fact that over a 2 month period, 4000 ESA claiments died within 6 weeks of being found 'capable of work'?

 

(other estimates have it as 10,600).

 

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/08/27/government-reveals-that-more-than-4000-died-within-six-weeks-of-being-deemed-fit-for-work/

 

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/10/04/10600-sick-disabled-people-died-last-year-within-six-weeks-of-their-claim-ending/

 

There's a cull going on here. And, IMO, it's actually more sinister than what the nazis did to the Jews, because this is death by bureaucracy. These victims are being killed by normal people ticking boxes on convoluted 'assessment forms'- people who are 'just doing their jobs'.

[Cyclone 10]

I've seen an interesting statistical analysis that shows that a large portion of those 4k or 10k would have died anyway. It's not that the assessment killed them.

But how can assessment be appropriate if it's finding people who are about to die, to be fit for work? That's insane.

[Hairyloon 10]

These victims are being killed by normal people ticking boxes on convoluted 'assessment forms'- people who are 'just doing their jobs'.

 

The staff at Auschwitz were just doing their jobs: the defence holds no water. I think we should be taking the battle to those people: get the individuals making the decisions in the civil courts for misfeasance.

We wouldn't need to win many cases to get the staff to start thinking twice before they shaft people.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2017 at 12:27 ----------

 

I've seen an interesting statistical analysis that shows that a large portion of those 4k or 10k would have died anyway. It's not that the assessment killed them.

How much is "large"? Less than 50%, else they'd have said "most".

But how can assessment be appropriate if it's finding people who are about to die, to be fit for work? That's insane.

That is the bigger point.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Hairyloon

[L00b 441]

But how can assessment be appropriate if it's finding people who are about to die, to be fit for work? That's insane.

That's easy enough to answer: if that assessment meets its targets.

 

Bonus points if conducting it comes in at, or under, budget.

 

Terry Gilliam's Brazil might provide a useful reference by way of introduction.

 

Welcome to one-Tory-party Brexited Britain, btw

[monkey104 10]

As I said, there are genuine cases where atos have made errors, however there are many where they have not.

I also stated that we were expecting it as my wife's mobility had improved, we would sooner that than a few extra pounds for a car.

Not all those poor folk died as a direct result of being denied pip.

If someone gives you money on a regular basis over a long period of time you become dependant on that money classing it as part of your income and not preparing for the fact you may get better.

 

I am glad that the government are reassessing all claimants because you can bet that there are a lot of folk out there who are undeserving or whose condition has improved and do not cancel their own pip.

 

Ps. Any argument you had lost all credibility when comparing atos to the nazis.

Edited May 11, 2017 by monkey104