Could Britex cause an early General Election?

[crookedspire]

That's the way the EU worded their article 50 rule, until its invoked they won't negotiate and once its invoked it can't be retracted, the idea was to deter members from leaving, that alone is a good reason to leave.

 

Here's another twist on Article 50 , the BBC today have spoken to the chap who wrote the rules on how a country leaves the EU. It was interesting on what he said which was even if Article 50 was triggered and everything set up to leave but have an change of heart it was possible to retracted it and join back.

[mafya]

I dont see it like that at all.

 

Have another referendum, if its vote leave again, then just trigger A50 straight away.

All this delay is not good, its being delayed because May hasnt got a clue.

 

What do you mean have another referendum?

Give your head a wobble and stop coming out with stupid ideas just because you don't like the result of the brexit referendum.

[phil752]

Here's another twist on Article 50 , the BBC today have spoken to the chap who wrote the rules on how a country leaves the EU. It was interesting on what he said which was even if Article 50 was triggered and everything set up to leave but have an change of heart it was possible to retracted it and join back.

 

This could be the push UKIP have been waiting for

[Funky_Gibbon]

It won't be possible to negotiate our terms of exit if Parliament have to vote on every offer and counter offer.

 

Nonsense. Parliament can set out the term of reference that the Government have to negotiate under (which is what today's ruling says has to happen) and then the Government go and negotiate under those term. They get a deal offered to them and then they come back to Parliament and Parliament votes on it just like they've done with every other treaty change.

 

And the argument put out that we'd be 'showing our hand' is also nonsense. There isn't a PM in history who didn't go into EU negotiations without having first told the media what their 'red lines' are.

 

There's also no reason why consulting Parliament means any of this has to take any longer than planned. The Government are the ones who set the legislative agenda and decide how much time to allocate. They can (and have done many times in the past 6 year) expedite legislation through Parliament at warp speed.

 

Their real issue with consulting Parliament is that they don't want to expose the rifts within their own party when whatever Bill they put forward starts going through the amendment stage and a large chunk of their own MPs refuse to give approval to the worst case scenario of Hard Brexit.

[Petminder]

Nonsense. Parliament can set out the term of reference that the Government have to negotiate under (which is what today's ruling says has to happen) and then the Government go and negotiate under those term. They get a deal offered to them and then they come back to Parliament and Parliament votes on it just like they've done with every other treaty change.

 

And the argument put out that we'd be 'showing our hand' is also nonsense. There isn't a PM in history who didn't go into EU negotiations without having first told the media what their 'red lines' are.

 

There's also no reason why consulting Parliament means any of this has to take any longer than planned. The Government are the ones who set the legislative agenda and decide how much time to allocate. They can (and have done many times in the past 6 year) expedite legislation through Parliament at warp speed.

 

Their real issue with consulting Parliament is that they don't want to expose the rifts within their own party when whatever Bill they put forward starts going through the amendment stage and a large chunk of their own MPs refuse to give approval to the worst case scenario of Hard Brexit.

 

So basically we leave of terms of leaving and the final decision to leave or not with the very people that didn't want to leave.

 

To negotiate successfully you have to want what you are negotiated for, parliament don't want to leave the EU therefor will make a poor negotiator.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Petminder

[phil752]

So basically we leave of terms of leaving and the final decision to leave or not with the very people that didn't want to leave.

 

To negotiate successfully you have to want what you are negotiated for, parliament don't want to leave the EU therefor will make a poor negotiator.

 

you seem to have it

[Douglas J]

Here's another twist on Article 50 , the BBC today have spoken to the chap who wrote the rules on how a country leaves the EU. It was interesting on what he said which was even if Article 50 was triggered and everything set up to leave but have an change of heart it was possible to retracted it and join back.

 

No, that's not the case and it is why it is such an important issue. Giving notice under Article 50 is a one-off event and can't be undone. It takes effect 2 years from the date of the notice unless all EU countries agree otherwise.

[Penistone999]

 

EU rules over membership are such that it discourages countries from leaving, that makes sense.

 

So you agree its a dictatorship . ?

[andyofborg]

No, that's not the case and it is why it is such an important issue. Giving notice under Article 50 is a one-off event and can't be undone. It takes effect 2 years from the date of the notice unless all EU countries agree otherwise.

 

There seems to be some confusion about whether or not the Article 50 notice can be rescinded, to get a definitive answer someone would have to go to the eu court of justice.

 

There does seem to be a great deal of confusion and uncertainty about the government's strategy, i think mostly because they don't know what it is. There are some incredible divisions in the conservative party over the eu, At one end there are people like liam fox and david davies and the other end ken clarke, philip hamilton with plenty of people spread out in between. I imagine finding a negotiating position which is at least tolerable to almost everybody is going to be hard going which is why there hasn't been much said.

 

If today's ruling stands then these divisions will be thrown open for all to see which is possibly a good thing for the nation since we can have a proper discussion about what we want.

 

As far as a General Election goes then that's not easy because of the Fixed Term Parliament Act. Given the state of the Labour Party, I doubt many would want to vote for the dissolution of Parliament. There are also a lot of MP's who's position on Brexit is at odds with the majority of their electorate and they might not relish an election either.

 

If May tries to bypass this by forcing some of the other ways to dissolve parliament under the act then it would finish her leadership and most likely leave the Conservative party in the same state Labour is not.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2016 at 20:14 ----------

 

So you agree its a dictatorship . ?

 

No it isn't, it's just the Article 50 mechanism isn't very good.

 

We need a new, improved Article 50 which codifies a proper process though that might take some time

[area 51]

This could be the push UKIP have been waiting for

 

Exactly what i was thinking,you cannot tell 17.4 million people, hard lines were staying and then expect them to vote for the Tories or the Labour party in the next general election.UKIP are not going to go away until brexit is complete.