What more evidence do we need to change our voting system?

[Anna B 1,417]

AV is not PR. The vote against AV does not mean that people don't want voting reform nor does it mean they think that FPTP is a good system.

 

:thumbsup:

[tzijlstra 11]

I feel quite proud that the British have shown their feelings in this civilised way rather than resorting to rioting etc as we have seen in the rest of Europe.

 

Since the 2007 crash and austerity the whole of Europe has been a tinder box waiting to explode. Maybe now other countries will see this and work towards getting their own referendum and this will take some of the heat out of the situation.

 

Sorry, what? You have clearly not a clue what you are talking about.

 

I presume you are referring to the scenes in Greece after their country went to the wall. I will point out, again, and probably be ignored by you, again, that Greece went to the polls on this, time and again. And each time the result ws conclusive - the people accepted (but by no means were happy with!) the bail-outs and resulting austerity.

 

Have you ever even spoken to Greek people? And why are you painting the whole continent with that brush, the Greeks are 10 million, there are 500 million Europeans, the rioting Greeks were what, 5 to 10 thousand? I was in Thessaloniki and Athens when all this kicked off. Unless you were at the main squares you hardly noticed these protests.

[Jeffrey Shaw 93]

the Greeks are 10 million, there are 500 million Europeans, the rioting Greeks were what, 5 to 10 thousand? I was in Thessaloniki and Athens when all this kicked off. Unless you were at the main squares you hardly noticed these protests.

Still, one out of a thousand would be quite a large proportion of rioters.

[max 13]

There is now a petition to get another referendum where they are saying there must be a minimum 75% turnout with a 60% majority for the vote to be valid. Should there be another referendum I think turnout would be less than the 72% achieved as people would think why bother, my vote does not count.

 

If that was the case would the original result count or would that be nullified returning to the status quo and hence damaging politics in this country for decades to come, UKIP would pull votes from all parties claiming, rightly, that you could not trust the other parties to follow the democratic will of the people.

 

As a brexiter I am pleased that we won but if remain had won I would have gone with the majority decision and hoped for another vote in maybe a decade or by voting in anti eu MPs.

 

Should this democratic vote be ignored I think we would be the laughing stock of the democratic world, the Eu would walk all over us, our self worth would be diminished, the will to engage in democracy by voting would be diminished permanently as many would see their vote, particularly the 17 million outers, as worthless.

 

It's time now to show that democracy, however painful for some, works and we go with the majority decision. For those that did not vote it's a case of shoulda, woulda, coulda. The young that did not vote should have and to everybody else that did not vote and does not like the vote I say tough, democracy spoke and should be acted on.

 

That petition was created by a Brexiter who listened to Farage when he said that we should have another referendum if there was a split around 52/48%. Of course, Farage was anticipating that he would lose by that margin.

[tzijlstra 11]

Still, one out of a thousand would be quite a large proportion of rioters.

 

Yes, not dissimilar from what we see here every Friday night on West Street or when Millwall come to town for a football match. Or indeed Grimsby, on their way to Alfreton with a stop at Sheffield.

[alchresearch 215]

16th May:

 

Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win

 

The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[monkey104 10]

But on the night of the election he was heard and seen to say (as opposed to reported about) that if the leave campaign failed he would stand by the result!

[Anna B 1,417]

Our voting system is antiquated and needs reform. We need Proportional Representation if we want to make every vote count.

 

It works in other countries so why not here?

[apelike 10]

Our voting system is antiquated and needs reform. We need Proportional Representation if we want to make every vote count.

 

It works in other countries so why not here?

 

I think because it suits the party in-place a the time to keep FPTP. Labour when in opposition wanted PR but as soon as the got in that idea went wayward. The LibDem's wanted PR but when they formed a coalition they were duped into a referendum on the AV system instead. With the AV system I voted against it as it was too complicated for voters. I'm sure that was also know by Cameron at the time that the vote would be no.

 

But.. I think you are right in that we should have PR as the way British politics is going we will be set for coalitions for many years to come.

[unbeliever 10]

I think because it suits the party in-place a the time to keep FPTP. Labour when in opposition wanted PR but as soon as the got in that idea went wayward. The LibDem's wanted PR but when they formed a coalition they were duped into a referendum on the AV system instead. With the AV system I voted against it as it was too complicated for voters. I'm sure that was also know by Cameron at the time that the vote would be no.

 

But.. I think you are right in that we should have PR as the way British politics is going we will be set for coalitions for many years to come.

 

How is AV complicated. I voted for it. If you really wanted PR, you'd have had a far better chance with AV as a stepping stone.

How is AV complicated?

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2016 at 18:16 ----------

 

Our voting system is antiquated and needs reform. We need Proportional Representation if we want to make every vote count.

 

It works in other countries so why not here?

 

It sometimes works in other countries.

It can lead to the same people being in government endlessly as if you get 2 or 3 main parties in coalition and you think they've done a bad job, how do you express this through the ballot box?

Edited June 28, 2016 by unbeliever

[tzijlstra 11]

How is AV complicated. I voted for it. If you really wanted PR, you'd have had a far better chance with AV as a stepping stone.

How is AV complicated?

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2016 at 18:16 ----------

 

 

It sometimes works in other countries.

It can lead to the same people being in government endlessly as if you get 2 or 3 main parties in coalition and you think they've done a bad job, how do you express this through the ballot box?

 

By voting for one of the other parties and actually have that vote count for something?

[apelike 10]

How is AV complicated. I voted for it. If you really wanted PR, you'd have had a far better chance with AV as a stepping stone.

How is AV complicated?

 

Instead of just marking X in the box for the candidate you wish it wanted people to mark and grade who they would prefer first. It could also encourage people just to put 1,2,3,4 etc in succession and in the order presented. Why should a candidate who lost have their votes passed on to the next candidate when the person who voted did not want that candidate? PR is much easier and fairer as it give proportionality to the candidates.

 

Notice how a council had to alter its EU referendum ballot papers because it showed people how to fill them in but had an illustration with a pencil and X mark on stay.