WASPI -Women Against State Pension Inequality

[runningman1 12]

The WASPI point is pretty clear to me. It's about lack of notice not a complaint about equalising State Pension Ages.

 

So there is no inequality, just a lack of notice regarding the removal of special privileges over men?

[WiseOwl182 10]

So there is no inequality, just a lack of notice regarding the removal of special privileges over men?

 

Women Against Speed of Transition To State Pension Equality (WASTTSPE).

 

More accurate, less catchy.

[Ethical 10]

So there is no inequality, just a lack of notice regarding the removal of special privileges over men?

 

That's an interesting comment. I can't see how there were "special privileges" really at all - for men or for women of that generation. When people born in the 50s grew up, went to school, got jobs, raised families etc etc society was structured differently so people organised their lives and retirement plans accordingly. That isn't the point though, I don't think; the issue is about lack of proper notice in relation to massive changes in State Pension Age. Those larger changes are to women's SPA by up to six years (and to men's by up to one year) for that cohort - the impact of those changes won't just be felt by the women but also by their husbands and families surely? A couple born in the 50s, married in the 70s and who planned together for their retirement will find their plans with a big hole in. If you are a single woman (widowed or made redundant etc) then the six year delay in getting a state pension is also going to hurt. In other words, this is going to hit a lot of people hard. It's the lack of notice principle which is the inequity here (and I think that's a better word than inequality). If you are in your 30s when you are told your SPA will rise then you mightn't like it but you have time to change course.

[runningman1 12]

That's an interesting comment. I can't see how there were "special privileges" really at all - for men or for women of that generation. When people born in the 50s grew up, went to school, got jobs, raised families etc etc society was structured differently so people organised their lives and retirement plans accordingly. That isn't the point though, I don't think; the issue is about lack of proper notice in relation to massive changes in State Pension Age. Those larger changes are to women's SPA by up to six years (and to men's by up to one year) for that cohort - the impact of those changes won't just be felt by the women but also by their husbands and families surely? A couple born in the 50s, married in the 70s and who planned together for their retirement will find their plans with a big hole in. If you are a single woman (widowed or made redundant etc) then the six year delay in getting a state pension is also going to hurt. In other words, this is going to hit a lot of people hard. It's the lack of notice principle which is the inequity here (and I think that's a better word than inequality). If you are in your 30s when you are told your SPA will rise then you mightn't like it but you have time to change course.

 

Yes but I don't see how giving the ladies more chance to plan for retirement can detrimentally impact their plans beyond having to wait to relax and enjoy life instead of going to work.

 

I understand said ladies are annoyed, I would be too. They aren't however victims of inequality. The sad thing is that women by and large are victims of inequality throughout society. This is not an example

[truman 10]

I love it when rude people are wrong.

 

In 1975 average house prices were about 3.5 x the average wage. Now they are closer to 7.5 x the average wage.

 

Seemingly you have no clue as to how things were in the 70's.

 

What were average mortgage repayments as a percentage of salary in the 70's? Genuine question..

[Ethical 10]

Yes but I don't see how giving the ladies more chance to plan for retirement can detrimentally impact their plans beyond having to wait to relax and enjoy life instead of going to work.

 

I understand said ladies are annoyed, I would be too. They aren't however victims of inequality. The sad thing is that women by and large are victims of inequality throughout society. This is not an example

 

I can only agree that women (not only women, it's other groups in society too, but it's women we are talking about in this context) suffer from inequality in many ways.

 

It's OK having more time to plan for retirement BUT only if you have a job. If you can keep on earning, then it's OK from a financial perspective if you are fit enough. However, if you don't have a job then you have a huge problem.

 

I encourage everyone to think about this because there could be a precedent set by the lack of notice ..... who is to say it won't happen to another group come the next pension review in 2017? It can happen with benefits (tax credits?) but pensions aren't benefits, they are contributory schemes and the goalposts were moved in stoppage time for many.

[WiseOwl182 10]

What were average mortgage repayments as a percentage of salary in the 70's? Genuine question..

 

Let's take 1979 as an example, since boomers born in the 50s were unlikely to be buying in the early 70s.

 

Average UK house price in 1979 = £13,650.

Average UK full time salary in 1979 = £6,281

UK BoE Base Rate in 1979 = 14%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £166 a month mortgage, from £523 a month gross salary. 32% of salary.

 

 

Compare with 2015.

 

Average UK house price in 2015 = £205,000.

Average UK full time salary in 2015 = £24,000

UK BoE Base Rate in 2015 = 0.5%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £828 a month mortgage, from £2,000 a month gross salary. 41% of salary.

[francypants 445]

Let's take 1979 as an example, since boomers born in the 50s were unlikely to be buying in the early 70s.

 

Average UK house price in 1979 = £13,650.

Average UK full time salary in 1979 = £6,281

UK BoE Base Rate in 1979 = 14%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £166 a month mortgage, from £523 a month gross salary. 32% of salary.

 

 

Compare with 2015.

 

Average UK house price in 2015 = £205,000.

Average UK full time salary in 2015 = £24,000

UK BoE Base Rate in 2015 = 0.5%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £828 a month mortgage, from £2,000 a month gross salary. 41% of salary.

 

 

Most people who I know born in the early to mid 50s bought their first houses in the early 70s. I was born 1955 and bought my first house in 1975. Many cousins and friends were the same.

[WiseOwl182 10]

Most people who I know born in the early to mid 50s bought their first houses in the early 70s. I was born 1955 and bought my first house in 1975. Many cousins and friends were the same.

 

 

Fine. Let's take 1975 as another example.

 

Average UK house price in 1975 = £10,388

Average UK full time salary in 1975 = £3,744

UK BoE Base Rate in 1975 = 10%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £98 a month mortgage, from £312 a month gross salary. 31% of salary.

 

 

Compare with 2015.

 

Average UK house price in 2015 = £205,000.

Average UK full time salary in 2015 = £24,000

UK BoE Base Rate in 2015 = 0.5%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £828 a month mortgage, from £2,000 a month gross salary. 41% of salary.

[ECCOnoob 1,051]

Fine. Let's take 1975 as another example.

 

Average UK house price in 1975 = £10,388

Average UK full time salary in 1975 = £3,744

UK BoE Base Rate in 1975 = 10%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £98 a month mortgage, from £312 a month gross salary. 31% of salary.

 

 

Compare with 2015.

 

Average UK house price in 2015 = £205,000.

Average UK full time salary in 2015 = £24,000

UK BoE Base Rate in 2015 = 0.5%

 

Let's assume the average house was bought with a 10% deposit and the buyer found a mortgage at Base Rate + 2%, over 25 years. That is £828 a month mortgage, from £2,000 a month gross salary. 41% of salary.

 

So... That leaves over £1172 each month to spend on other things. Hardly penniless. Lets also not totally forget that many homeowners paying such mortgage will be COUPLES so that could be anything up to £4000 each month coming into the pot with the same £828 mortgage payment going out. That leaves over £3k in the household to spend on everything else.

 

Fact is those paying £205k for a house are very very unlikely to be on the national average salary of £24k. They will be even more unlikely to be sole occupiers struggling with a single income.

 

There is a huge amount of distortion when it comes to "average" figures.

[WiseOwl182 10]

So... That leaves over £1172 each month to spend on other things. Hardly penniless. Lets also not totally forget that many homeowners paying such mortgage will be COUPLES so that could be anything up to £4000 each month coming into the pot with the same £828 mortgage payment going out. That leaves over £3k in the household to spend on everything else.

 

Fact is those paying £205k for a house are very very unlikely to be on the national average salary of £24k. They will be even more unlikely to be sole occupiers struggling with a single income.

 

There is a huge amount of distortion when it comes to "average" figures.

 

Three things:

 

1) That was gross not net take home, so they'd have even less left over to cover things.

 

2) It's still much more costly now than it was for boomers, however you look at it..

 

3) Couples now having to both work, even after having kids, was kind of my whole point. A lot of boomers women now moaning about retiring slightly later were able to either not work or go part time due to the lower mortgage costs.

 

The fact is it takes two professional jobs to buy an average sized house in a nice area of Sheffield now, the same house that boomers bought on one salary, and often from a lower paying job.

Edited November 11, 2015 by WiseOwl182