Relax Immigration says Inst' of Directors

[Cyclone 10]

3 years is no use if you need to hire someone to start a week on Monday.

[El Cid 221]

3 years is no use if you need to hire someone to start a week on Monday.

 

I would guess that most immigrants are not doing jobs that 'require' a degree; so the training would be much shorter. But we are doing nothing, aFE colleges are being closed in my local area, because funding is down.

[tzijlstra 11]

I walk up The Moor yesterday... full of foreign geologists shopping in Poundland.

 

Were they accompanied by the Ranmoor set that usually rock up in their Jaguars? You just confirmed my point entirely by yourself. Open up your eyes to the real world Zamo, are all your colleagues/customers etc. English? How many of them are immigrants or descended from immigrants?

 

I at times wish people like you would show more enthusiasm about protecting british jobs instead of letting any tom/dick/harry coming here to take them

 

Read what I reply below, might broaden your view a bit, saves you having to use a smiley next time.

 

It really makes me sick that businesses that want skills, want others to train them up so they can just hire and fire them. It doesn't work like that so when these directors spit their dummy out because they haven't planned and invested they should be at the back of the queue. Top CEO's are on a role and its up to them to set training guides from school up.

Businesses should be talking to the schools not immigration.

 

I agree, businesses need to display far more social responsibility. If Britain wants to slow down immigration it needs to look at the labour market collectively and fix the issues that exist (not training enough "native kids" to do the jobs that need doing for one). Adult learning and re-training should become the standard, just as it is in other countries, but that needs to be facilitated in the system and it seems pre-crisis talk of that being important has eroded once money got tight for the state and business.

 

But you can't point at the immigrants taking the jobs that are available and blame them, that is the easy way out, the hard way is actually getting your MP to have a moment of influence in an antiquated and utterly ineffective parliament and sort things out.

 

For an example, look at the NHS, there is either a severe shortage of kids that want to be nurses or there is a massive shortage of places at nursing schools, either way the UK is not providing enough nurses for its own needs, something that was pretty darned evident 2 decades ago and in all that time nothing has happened to address the situation. The same goes for countless other professions. To then say that immigration is bad is short sighted (note - I realise that is not what you are saying, but it is what people like ricgem like to do).

[L00b 441]

The UK has one of the lowest rates of education in the EU, despite having the best HE system in the world, it is antiquated ideas about attainment and position in life (the old class-chestnut) that creates that issue. "Me dad were a labourer on't yard, so I want to be't labourer too"

I believe it's actually the exact reverse, in this day and age.

 

UK companies lack 'skilled' workers, because UK youths rightly or wrongly do not want to take up the sort of low-paid 'skilled' jobs which they offer, UK youths want to be professional footballers, rock stars, A to Z listed celebs or CEOs on £-millions a year and won't settle for less.

 

I can't blame them, such unrealistically-aspirational role models are drummed into their heads relentlessly by mass media from the very moment they develop any amount of cognitive capacity, aged 2 or 3.

 

The Lancashire clothing factory piece on BBC News last night was a glaring own-goal in that respect. Lancashire company is last surviving clothing mill in UK, properly 'made in UK' fashion clothing. Shop floor run by Afghani, seamstresses include everything under the sun except Brits, basically the entire company staff underneath Board is immigrated. British company owner laments lack of skills and job/training applications from British nationals, has to import skilled workers for this skilled work. What are they paid, asks the interviewer. Fudge answer (worthy of a politician) which basically translates as NMW.

 

Other than for self-improvement and associated improving job prospects, what's the point of gaining sewing and other garment-related physical skills, if it doesn't pay any more than flipping burgers or sweeping streets?

 

Personally, out of the (fair few) British youths I've known for years, and still know, there is one or two whom I can see are going to make a lot for themselves. One out of a working class single parent family, the other out of a middle class (used to be working class) dual parent family. There are countless others, mostly out of middle class families, who had tons of promise and (objectively-) attainable training/academic aims (police, architecture, pediatry nursing, politics, more) and have now all but given up through apathy, peer influence and general vacuity (to end up, respectively, trainee mechanic, trainee tattooist, trainee hairdresser, on a social work-related degree).

 

One of the two 'good' ones, out of the working class/single parent background, has just been accepted for aircrew training with Emirates. She's been learning French, Arabic and Chinese of her own back (already fluent Spanish and Italian), and has been running two retail counter jobs (Sheffield and Leeds) for the past year and bit, until she jets off to Dubai for training. She'll do trolley dolly with Emirates for a couple years, long enough to save enough to carry her through doing a Masters (or somesuch, post-grad) in a US university.

 

That's the sort of aspiration and drive the British educational system should inculcate into kids from day one.

Edited August 28, 2015 by L00b

[tzijlstra 11]

I believe it's actually the exact reverse, in this day and age.

 

UK companies lack 'skilled' workers, because UK youths rightly or wrongly do not want to take up the sort of low-paid 'skilled' jobs which they offer, UK youths want to be professional footballers, rock stars, A to Z listed celebs or CEOs on £-millions a year and won't settle for less.

 

No that is a bit of a generalisation, just as mine was to be fair. But it is odd that at the better universities the majority of kids are from nice middle class backgrounds. There is a large section of the population who lack aspiration due to a dearth of inspiration.

[retep 68]

3 years is no use if you need to hire someone to start a week on Monday.

 

What are you skilled at and how long did it take to learn it.

[MintPlumbing 10]

No that is a bit of a generalisation, just as mine was to be fair. But it is odd that at the better universities the majority of kids are from nice middle class backgrounds. There is a large section of the population who lack aspiration due to a dearth of inspiration.

 

Just a bit, I would have said you both made massive generalizations which made you both wrong.

[tzijlstra 11]

Just a bit, I would have said you both made massive generalizations which made you both wrong.

 

Something you never do. So explain why Britain needs to import skilled labour Mint?

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2015 at 15:59 ----------

 

That's the sort of aspiration and drive the British educational system should inculcate into kids from day one.

 

I think this part was added in the edit?

 

I agree entirely.

[MintPlumbing 10]

Something you never do. So explain why Britain needs to import skilled labour Mint?

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2015 at 15:59 ----------

 

 

I think this part was added in the edit?

 

I agree entirely.

 

It doesn't need to, it chooses to do it instead of providing enough training places for the British youth. I predict that in 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 years people will still be saying, but it takes four years to train someone and employers need them now. So start training them now because they will be needed in 4 years, but we know they won't whilst ever they have unlimited access to millions of people from all over the world.

[phantom309 10]

The Institute of Directors spokesperson does not seem too bright with this statement as they all ready have around 28 countries and over half a billion people from whom to recruit staff from as they are all E U citizens and do not require work permits or visa,s and they are not migrants.

[I1L2T3 10]

Is that a refusal to actually talk about this topic Zamo?

If you want to talk about your anecdotes and judgements from the moor, then you should start a new thread.

 

This thread is about SKILLED LABOUR and the comments by the IoD.

 

Just to back this up the last few places I have worked have a very high demand for skilled labour and that demand is being met by workers from places like Poland, Lithuania, Germany and India.

 

These people are not low-skilled, low-waged workers driving crap cars and living in crapholes. Totally the opposite.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2015 at 18:58 ----------

 

The Institute of Directors spokesperson does not seem too bright with this statement as they all ready have around 28 countries and over half a billion people from whom to recruit staff from as they are all E U citizens and do not require work permits or visa,s and they are not migrants.

 

This is true but Indian workers for example are often (though not always) quite malleable and (overly) desperate to please their employers. They can also bring certain tax advantages to employers as well.

[tzijlstra 11]

It doesn't need to, it chooses to do it instead of providing enough training places for the British youth. I predict that in 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 years people will still be saying, but it takes four years to train someone and employers need them now. So start training them now because they will be needed in 4 years, but we know they won't whilst ever they have unlimited access to millions of people from all over the world.

 

No you are wrong, the government is actively choosing not to, by frustrating the immigration process, but you don't believe that so you think it does.

 

To train people you need people to train, has it occurred to you that the schools might be failing? Not just the bottom-dwelling horror schools we all hear about, but in fact the whole system?