EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[tzijlstra 11]

A national team will always suffer when lots of overseas players arrive. This is not unique to England the same things happened when Italy and Spain attracted all the best players.

 

Clubs don't produce local talent but buy ready made stars. It also effect young English players getting a chance with clubs so their development is hindered.

 

The national team didn't qualify for the 1994 world cup either. That's WITH the Premier league in place, granted in its infancy though.

 

The point I'm making is that this country had a thriving football culture with home grown players, and filling it full of foreigners just killed that. The Premier league has been great for the Premier league, but a disaster for English football. Just like Britain's membership of the EU has been great for the EU but a disaster for Britain.

 

You guys are hilarious. The PL is by far the biggest national football competition on the planet, the FA Cup is watched all over the world, even the Championship is huge. But somehow it is all worthless because EU.

 

Sound reasoning throughout, really.

[Hots on 10]

So are you suggesting that we should go back to the 1970s when the English national team couldn't qualify for a World Cup? It's not the greatest analogy.

 

I love how you choose to highlight and make a point on that and gloss over the likes of Nottingham Forest, that's, NOTTINGHAM FOREST, winning the European cup TWICE.

 

---------- Post added 03-05-2016 at 19:00 ----------

 

You guys are hilarious. The PL is by far the biggest national football competition on the planet, the FA Cup is watched all over the world, even the Championship is huge. But somehow it is all worthless because EU.

 

Sound reasoning throughout, really.

 

I don't think you're as daft as to completely miss the points I'm making. You're just being deliberately obtuse. Because you know I'm right.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Hots on

[tzijlstra 11]

I love how you choose to highlight and make a point on that and gloss over the likes of Nottingham Forest, that's, NOTTINGHAM FOREST, winning the European cup TWICE.

 

---------- Post added 03-05-2016 at 19:00 ----------

 

 

I don't think you're as daft as to completely miss the points I'm making. You're just being deliberately obtuse. Because you know I'm right.

 

How obtuse is this: The biggest league (in financial terms that far outstrip its nearest competitors) is going to attract the best talent in the world, not just its home-nation.

 

If you want the PL to be like the Polish top division (similar population after all) than good luck to you, but I quite like seeing my Aguero's (Argentinian), Yaya's (Ivorian), Kante's (French Ghanaian) and so on.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

A national team will always suffer when lots of overseas players arrive. This is not unique to England the same things happened when Italy and Spain attracted all the best players.

 

Clubs don't produce local talent but buy ready made stars. It also effect young English players getting a chance with clubs so their development is hindered.

 

There were hardly any overseas players in the 1970s when England never qualified for the World Cup. Also are you sure that Spain suffered when they attracted all their foreign players, I'm sure that they've had their must successful period ever.

 

---------- Post added 03-05-2016 at 19:09 ----------

 

Brexit argument:

There has been loss of sovereignty. There's more to come. We'll be absorbed into a European super-state. That's a bad idea both economically and ideologically/politically.

 

If the EU moves in a direction that is perceived to be not in this country's interest, we can always leave. So the bogey man of the future USSR/EU isn't really an issue for this referendum.

[unbeliever 10]

 

If the EU moves in a direction that is perceived to be not in this country's interest, we can always leave. So the bogey man of the future USSR/EU isn't really an issue for this referendum.

 

We're already at that point.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

We're already at that point.

 

No we're not at a point of no return. If in 5 years it's a case of much closer integration, our national government could choose again to put it to the people, or even hold an election over whether or not we stay in the EU.

 

My point is, we can stay in for as long as we want to. Our sovereignty is intact, the people/our government can have the final say.

[unbeliever 10]

No we're not at a point of no return. If in 5 years it's a case of much closer integration, our national government could choose again to put it to the people, or even hold an election over whether or not we stay in the EU.

 

My point is, we can stay in for as long as we want to. Our sovereignty is intact, the people/our government can have the final say.

 

Are you sure? What if a treaty change occurs where membership is determined not by national government but by QMV.

Whether or not the UK signed such a treaty would be up to the government and there's no guarantee that a referendum would be held.

Once federalised we would have no automatic right to separate. As various states of the US discovered in 1861.

Your approach risks losing nationhood either suddenly or incrementally on the quiet.

[Funky_Gibbon 42]

I love EU debates. Brings out all the wannabe speculative fiction writers...

[Tomtom66 10]

I love EU debates. Brings out all the wannabe speculative fiction writers...

 

just catching up on this thread, and its fantastic that the future of our country for generations to come is being decided through if its good for football or not

[Zamo 10]

Why do so?

 

Put aside the ample amount of earlier discussion in this thread about sovereignty, and as we are currently seeing aplenty in e.g. Hungary and Austria (on the particular topic of free movement and mass immigration), self-rule has not been diminished and there's no sign of it being diminished. Still less so now that the UK is out of the 'ever closer union' scope.

 

Have you missed Hungary's latest referendum development? Have a read.

 

The EU dictates immigration, free movement and asylum policy to member states. It tells them who it can and can't deport by forcing them (as a condition of membership) to sign up to the ECHR. And it will dictate migrant quotas to member states too. The fact that the EU has not yet made a move to sanction/punish the likes of Austria and Hungry for their rebellion does not mean it isn't coming. It is disingenuous to pretend that sovereignty has not been lost.

 

Is branding Remainers as cowards the latest Brexiters' tactic?

 

Relative to the (core) fearmongering tactic of old, it's not elevating the debate much

 

If the EU announced tomorrow that in the event of the UK voting to leave, it will allow the UK continued access to the single market provided it paid a reasonable contribution towards administration costs and it continued to adhere to their trade regulations, then how would people vote? Would the decision still hang in the balance? Of course not.

 

As a matter of principle, the British people are overwhelmingly against the federalisation of Europe and the ceding of non-trade related powers to the EU. The Remain campaign has no arguments that can change this so it is left with only one tactic... scare people into submitting to something they don't want. It is a shameful tactic to deploy but it will be even more shameful if enough people succumb to it.

[tzijlstra 11]

The EU dictates immigration, free movement and asylum policy to member states. It tells them who it can and can't deport by forcing them (as a condition of membership) to sign up to the ECHR. And it will dictate migrant quotas to member states too. The fact that the EU has not yet made a move to sanction/punish the likes of Austria and Hungry for their rebellion does not mean it isn't coming. It is disingenuous to pretend that sovereignty has not been lost.

 

It doesn't dictate asylum policy at all, it is completely disingenuous to claim that when the UK government is taking in a fraction of the Syrian refugees that other EU nations are. Lies Zamo, pretty good at it are you?

 

If the EU announced tomorrow that in the event of the UK voting to leave, it will allow the UK continued access to the single market provided it paid a reasonable contribution towards administration costs and it continued to adhere to their trade regulations, then how would people vote? Would the decision still hang in the balance? Of course not.

 

Why would the EU offer that when that is essentially what the UK already gets? It has control of its own borders and access to the single market, on top of your narrow-minded proposal it also gets democratic influence on EU policies and is a strong voice in the EU as is.

 

As a matter of principle, the British people are overwhelmingly against the federalisation of Europe and the ceding of non-trade related powers to the EU. The Remain campaign has no arguments that can change this so it is left with only one tactic... scare people into submitting to something they don't want. It is a shameful tactic to deploy but it will be even more shameful if enough people succumb to it.

 

Why don't we let the British people decide that in the referendum rather than having lying xenophobes like you tell them that is what they want.

[MikeFrank 10]

There were hardly any overseas players in the 1970s when England never qualified for the World Cup. Also are you sure that Spain suffered when they attracted all their foreign players, I'm sure that they've had their must successful period ever.

 

.

 

No country had many overseas players in the 70s. There were a few but not many so this comparison is not valid.

 

Spain is doing better now because apart from a few teams they are not that attractive to world class footballers. Therefore the national team is doing better, young Spaniards are getting more of a chance.

 

---------- Post added 03-05-2016 at 20:50 ----------

 

You guys are hilarious. The PL is by far the biggest national football competition on the planet, the FA Cup is watched all over the world, even the Championship is huge. But somehow it is all worthless because EU.

 

Sound reasoning throughout, really.

 

A couple of points here. The PL is not a national football tournament its a domestic league.

 

The FA cup has been degraded greatly since money took over the game. The big clubs don't take it as seriously as the PL or CL. Many play reserve teams in the early rounds. Man Utd didn't even take part in 1999.