The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Mister Gee 830]

I don’t understand the almost god like adulation that Jezza receives from his followers, what has he done other than to lose two general elections? Even May, who must be the worst Tory leader/prime minister since Eden, has won one, and that was against him.

 

I agree but you've not been chipping in on the Conservative thread about this for some reason?

[Anna B 1,417]

What would you recommend as an impartial source if not a complete third party?

 

 

 

I don't think calling someone who is blatantly a massive Corbyn supporter a Corbyn lover is a barbed comment. Are you really sinking to going down that route when you yourself have suggested that if people don't support Corbyn they must be so stupid that they are brainwashed by the media.

 

Stop and think for a second which is the worst of the two above examples.

 

'Corbyn supporter' will do just fine thankyou.

 

As far as I'm aware I've hardly mentioned people being brainwashed, in fact in post 4443 I particularly stated that you were not brainwashed, in response to Hackney's (tongue-in-cheek) accusation. However it is sometimes used as a shorthand for people whose minds are closed to new ideas and who fail to do look any deeper into what they are being told.

 

Which brings me to point number 1. It's very difficult these days to get an impartial opinion on anything, particularly now that the internet also feeds self-supporting propoganda, fake news etc to it's clients. So it's important to use a wide number of sources and check out their sources too. (It gets ever more complicated.) Personally I would think going to the horse's mouth is the most reliable source, but even that needs to be taken in context.

 

As you probably know I've been to see Corbyn at one of his rallies, and got the chance to meet him and chat to him afterwards. (How often can you say that about other politicians?) and was very impressed by what he had to say, and also by the measure of the man. Very impressed indeed.

[altus 540]

Quite right, I had actually forgotten about Mr Ed, so what has he done, other than to lose one general election against a very weak Tory leader?

I was just pointing out your error. Though compared to how Labour were widely predicted to do in 2017, he did much better than expected. He's got a long way to go though - Blair and Cameron both had about a 15% lead over the opposition in the local elections the year before they first won and Kinnock had a 2% larger margin over the Tories than Corbyn did the year before he lost. Corbyn's fans need to get some perspective - they need to convince the people who switch between Tory and Labour (like Blair did) not just the left of the Labour party.

 

You'll have to get one of his fans to sing his praises though, I'm not one of them.

[Anna B 1,417]

Blair was the right man at the right time, when the country was doing well, and 'we were all middle class now.'

 

Sadly that's no longer true, and a lot of the things people took for granted as being permanent fixtures, (and were very hard won over many years,) have all but disappeared. Free Education, health care and dentistry, social care etc and then there are the things under serious threat, like housing, decent jobs, training, crime fighting, welfare, libraries, investment in infrastructure and so on.

 

We need to rethink where we are now, and what we want to do about it. The Tories have cut all these things and we are on a downward path, productivity and exports down, stress and worry up. Only Labour will work to restore them.

[truman 10]

 

 

As you probably know I've been to see Corbyn at one of his rallies, and got the chance to meet him and chat to him afterwards. (How often can you say that about other politicians?) and was very impressed by what he had to say, and also by the measure of the man. Very impressed indeed.

 

I bet that's what Gillian Duffy thought about Gordon Brown until she heard what he said in the car....

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2018 at 17:17 ----------

 

Blair was the right man at the right time, when the country was doing well, and 'we were all middle class now.'

 

Sadly that's no longer true, and a lot of the things people took for granted as being permanent fixtures, (and were very hard won over many years,) have all but disappeared. Free Education, health care and dentistry, social care etc and then there are the things under serious threat, like housing, decent jobs, training, crime fighting, welfare, libraries, investment in infrastructure and so on.

 

We need to rethink where we are now, and what we want to do about it. The Tories have cut all these things and we are on a downward path, productivity and exports down, stress and worry up. Only Labour will work to restore them.

 

When was dentistry free under Blair? What healthcare do you pay for now that you didn't before,,,same for education...

[Mister Gee 830]

I bet that's what Gillian Duffy thought about Gordon Brown until she heard what he said in the car....

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2018 at 17:17 ----------

 

 

When was dentistry free under Blair? What healthcare do you pay for now that you didn't before,,,same for education...

 

That just sounds like wishful thinking on your behalf.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Mister Gee

[GhostRiders 15]

'Corbyn supporter' will do just fine thankyou.

 

As far as I'm aware I've hardly mentioned people being brainwashed, in fact in post 4443 I particularly stated that you were not brainwashed, in response to Hackney's (tongue-in-cheek) accusation. However it is sometimes used as a shorthand for people whose minds are closed to new ideas and who fail to do look any deeper into what they are being told.

 

Which brings me to point number 1. It's very difficult these days to get an impartial opinion on anything, particularly now that the internet also feeds self-supporting propoganda, fake news etc to it's clients. So it's important to use a wide number of sources and check out their sources too. (It gets ever more complicated.) Personally I would think going to the horse's mouth is the most reliable source, but even that needs to be taken in context.

 

As you probably know I've been to see Corbyn at one of his rallies, and got the chance to meet him and chat to him afterwards. (How often can you say that about other politicians?) and was very impressed by what he had to say, and also by the measure of the man. Very impressed indeed.

 

You did in fact state that I was not brainwashed, but by the same token you have also implied that those who aren't Corbyn supporters are duped by the media. So by my reckoning that makes me both not brainwashed but stupid enough to be duped by the people who are brainwashing people, which makes me believe you have realised your error and are now backtracking.

 

Regarding meeting politicians face to face, I am sure that I already told you that I'm not going to trust anyone just because they speak scented words. Our political system is hardly renowned for its political elite coming to power and keeping their promises. To me Corbyn has a long way to go before pleasent words convince me.

 

There's stuff he has, and hasn't done which has lead me to believe he's no different to any other politician, and having a fan base that bend over to defend him and go around wearing t shirts with his name on is not enough for this old dog to fall for it. If he comes to power and proves me wrong then brilliant (the same as if any party leader did that, regardless of party) but until that happens a bunch of hardline, he never does any wrong-ers telling me that he's wonderful just isn't going to cut the mustard.

[Anna B 1,417]

I bet that's what Gillian Duffy thought about Gordon Brown until she heard what he said in the car....

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2018 at 17:17 ----------

 

 

When was dentistry free under Blair? What healthcare do you pay for now that you didn't before,,,same for education...

 

After the rally, he met with a lot of people who were milling about, shaking hands, joking, chatting, all very natural and informal. He also had a discussion with a man who I gather (from the body language) put some tricky questions to him. I couldn't hear it all, but they had a conversation. He listened to the guy, and responded to his concerns, afterwards they laughed and shook hands before moving on, must have taken a few minutes.

 

I am reminded of after the time he was criticised for not bowing his head deeply enough after a service at the Cenotaph, and not attending a formal follow up dinner. In actual fact it turned out he was the only politician to stay behind afterwards and hang out with the war veterans. (there's photos to prove it. Y'see that's media bias...)

 

I thought dentistry was free, braces stuff like that. It was when I was a kid. Now I can't get an NHS dentist at all and have to pay for it. The NHS is so pushed that you now may well have to pay for treatment to get it done at all. And don't get me started on having to pay for carers and extortionate amounts for care homes.

 

Higher education used to not only be free, but a student grant came with it. There were also free classes at night school and free training for jobs. Now training is expensive. Last time I looked, (a few years ago,) training to be a bricklayer came in at £650, it's probably more now. It's expensive, and therefore not available to some if you want to improve your chances and upskill. Even Nursing comes at a price I believe. Yet we now have a shortage of craftsmen, and have to rob countries abroad of their nurses to supplement our own.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Anna B

[hackey lad 3,991]

After the rally, he met with a lot of people who were milling about, shaking hands, joking, chatting, all very natural and informal. He also had a discussion with a man who I gather (from the body language) put some tricky questions to him. I couldn't hear it all, but they had a conversation. He listened to the guy, and responded to his concerns, afterwards they laughed and shook hands before moving on, must have taken a few minutes.

 

I am reminded of after the time he was criticised for not bowing his head deeply enough after a service at the Cenotaph, and not attending a formal follow up dinner. In actual fact it turned out he was the only politician to stay behind afterwards and hang out with the war veterans. (there's photos to prove it. Y'see that's media bias...)

 

I thought dentistry was free, braces stuff like that. It was when I was a kid. Now I can't get an NHS dentist at all and have to pay for it. The NHS is so pushed that you now may well have to pay for treatment to get it done at all.

 

Higher education used to not only be free, but a student grant came with it. There were also free classes at night school and free training for jobs. Now training is expensive. Last time I looked, (a few years ago,) training to be a bricklayer came in at £650, it's probably more now. It's expensive, and therefore not available to some if you want to improve your chances and upskill. Even Nursing comes at a price I believe. Yet we now have a shortage of craftsmen, and have to rob countries abroad of their nurses to supplement our own.

 

Anna , may I ask what led you to attended this rally and what other rallies have you attended ?

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2018 at 19:46 ----------

 

If me calling a Jeremy supporter a "Jeremy lover" upsets anyone then ,so be it . Ive been called far worse on here and not cried about it

[Mister Gee 830]

Anna , may I ask what led you to attended this rally and what other rallies have you attended ?

 

What with you being a 'proud Tory', have you attended any Tory rallies hackey?

[hackey lad 3,991]

What with you being a 'proud Tory', have you attended any Tory rallies hackey?

 

No , mate . Does that make me a bad person ?

[Mister Gee 830]

No , mate . Does that make me a bad person ?

 

I don't think you're a Tory hacks, so you can't be a bad person.