UKIP and the EU

[Halibut]

some people have been doing that with Labour for decades , so why shouldn't people do it for UKIP. ?

 

Ah, the crassly foolish two wrongs make a right approach.

[gimp27]

So what you're saying is that under your plan we would lose a lot of skilled people and people with a lot of money to spend and not counterbalance that in any way. So with a skills shortage and a decline in domestic spending how do you think our economy will fare?

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2014 at 18:56 ----------

 

 

Because not everyone is a narrow-minded nationalist. There is massive political commitment on the continent to the EU outside right-wing ghettos like the ones inhabited by UKIP, the FN, et al. Mainstream right-wing parties are massively committed to the EU and to its expansion. So are people on the left. Look at what has just brought down the government in Ukraine. It wasn't a desire for insular politics.

 

A lot of us are, and not all of us are pro-EU, which is how the world works.

[Doom]

You really think the ones complaining about immigration are the swing voters? I would put them quite firmly in the "no" camp, not the ones who haven't decided which way to vote, or that might still change it.

 

Here's the link to the poll:

 

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/12/18/eu-referendum-red-lines-swing-voters/

 

 

So you don't know how much our being in the EU is worth to UK PLC after all.

 

There's a lot more to our membership of the EU than figures on a balance sheet. Unless you can attach a figure to all of them, you can't declare our net contribution as positive or negative as you're only working with a few of the elements involved.

 

I'm not talking about UK PLC, I'm talking about EU PLC.

 

Like any business they operate on income and expenditure.

 

Say for example it's a £200 billion business and we put in £10billion, but only take out £5 billion, then the business would have a £5 billion shortfall that needs to be made up elsewhere if we were to stop contributing.

 

Either some of the countries need to up how much they put in or others need to reduce what they take out.

 

I've no idea whether it would have a major impact, but as one of the main countries in the EU along with Germany and France, if we pull out it's bound to have some sort of impact and that may well be enough to persuade others to follow us out.

 

Regards

 

Doom

[Stoatwobbler]

I think a lot of UKIP supporters would be outraged if one of the consequences of leaving the EU was to price them out of buying virtually any of today's niceties. Even stuff which is currently built here, like cars, would see massive cost increases, as many of the components are imported from the likes of China.

 

We live in a worldwide economy - excluding ourselves from that for no reason other than harking back to the British Empire and a dislike of foreigners would be suicidal for our domestic economy.

 

I don't think most people realise the benefits of free trade at all, and UKIP capitalise on peoples ignorance of the benefits of free trade as much as they can.

 

It should be said of course, what those of us who do recognise the need for free trade need to be more vocal against UKIP protectionist twaddle. Simply carping about "little englanders" does not cut the mustard.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Stoatwobbler
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[LeMaquis]

A lot of us are, and not all of us are pro-EU, which is how the world works.

 

Actually it's not how the world works because the EU wouldn't exist if it did. National governments have to work with other national governments in relation to trade, treaties, co-operation, etc. Narrow-minded nationalist bigots only get a look-in by bleating on the side-line.

[Stoatwobbler]

I could manage just fine without Chinese imports, but if we leave the EU we won't have to because they will happily trade with us.

 

You can't manage without Chinese goods. You can argue about the rights and wrongs of that til you are blue in the face but sooner or later you are going to have to face reality. Would you even be posting on this website without Chinese manufactures?

[ivanava]

You can't manage without Chinese goods. You can argue about the rights and wrongs of that til you are blue in the face but sooner or later you are going to have to face reality. Would you even be posting on this website without Chinese manufactures?

 

Yes. ............

[L00b]

Yes. ............

How? (This is going to be fun )

[ivanava]

How? (This is going to be fun )

 

Simples China don't make everything, believe it or not some other countries also make stuff.

[Zamo]

Just a few examples of each would be fine.

 

I'd personally like to see us get rid of human rights (we have more than enough equality laws) and wave goodbye to the European Court of Human Rights.

 

I'd like the UK to once again have the power to set its own immigration policy. Whilst I agree in principle to the freedom of movement idea, we do not have a level playing field in terms of services and benefits offered by different countries within the EU. I'd therefore like the power to restrict entry, or access to services and benefits, to people unable to pay their share. That way immigration makes us better off instead of worse off.

 

I'd like to see your sums for showing we make a huge net contribution, it must have taken quite some time to compile, why don't you show your working? Or is it you're only taking the treasury contributions / benefits to work out your calculation, ignoring the vast array of other benefits the UK gets from being in the EU - not least access to a wide, productive workforce who provide a massive boost to UK production and therefore corporation and individual taxes.

 

Here's some analysis prvided by the Guardian. As you see, the UK pays more in than it spends and only the Netherlands gets less out.