Delighted to see University applications down 9%..

[Mecky 10]

This is a good point, my son is a self taught accountant, and he passed all the relevant exams whilst working. The work he did for his studies bore no resemblance to the work he does as an accountant, he says that when a graduate starts work they are shocked that what have been taught for their degree is useless for the workplace.

 

Didn't think you could work as an accountant without passing an exam?

[MrSmith 10]

Didn't think you could work as an accountant without passing an exam?

 

His boss doesn’t have any qualification; she has just been working in accounts for about 30 years and is the management accountant.

He started working in a call centre whilst doing his AAT, then moved to pay roll for a couple of years, when he was studding for his CEMA he had a job as an assistant accountant, now he’s a qualified accountant. But the qualification is nothing compared to experience which is what every employer he has worked for wants.

[pottedplant 10]

Err, no. Still here, chuckling at the way most people have only read part of my post and failed to grasp the point.

 

I did ask you what the point was - see here (post 17):

 

Not sure I understand this post.

 

The number of applicants may be down but that will not presumably reduce the number of places ergo the number of students ergo the number of graduates.

 

Therefore no reduction in number of smart arses applying for your jobs.....unless I have missed something?

[Cyclone 10]

His boss doesn’t have any qualification; she has just been working in accounts for about 30 years and is the management accountant.

He started working in a call centre whilst doing his AAT, then moved to pay roll for a couple of years, when he was studding for his CEMA he had a job as an assistant accountant, now he’s a qualified accountant. But the qualification is nothing compared to experience which is what every employer he has worked for wants.

 

That's the case for most things. I use nothing on a day to day basis from my computer science degree, my OH uses nothing from her MEng.

The degree's though prove an aptitude in the area and the ability to learn.

[alchresearch 215]

Don't be so sure, a friend’s son went the Sheffield uni without A levels, he failed as you would expect and left with debts that he will never pay back.

 

I never had A levels, the uni thought my career experience was more than enough. You do need good GCSEs in Maths and English though.

 

Saying that, the uni had to run special classes to help the younger students brush up on basic Maths and English. To say they'd come out of school just two years earlier with A's and B's you wouldn't think it when they couldn't do simple mental arithmetic or any basic grammar.

[Cyclone 10]

Foundation courses. They could have come out of school without a maths A level and be needing A level maths abilities.

 

Different rules apply to mature students though, no school leaver is going to have sufficient experience to replace the required A levels.

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

They could also have come out of school with Maths 'A' level and needed further tuition!

 

My son (a mature student) was required to do a foundation course in Maths and Physics. The University he is attending accepted that his Chemistry was up to scratch (Should've been; he read Biochemistry the last time he was at University.)

 

He had left school with a reasonable ('B' - AFAIR) maths 'A' level and I thought the University was being a bit harsh. Then I saw the textbooks. The mathematics he was doing in his 'foundation' year went a long way beyond 'A' level maths - Even the separate Pure and Applied 'A' levels of 40-odd years ago.

 

The course was a bit of a pain - an additional year on a 4-year degree - but he found it was well-worth doing. When he started the first year of the degree proper, he had no difficulties whatsoever, but those who had entered with Maths at A* were having serious difficulties.

[barleycorn 10]

good news might get rid of some of the wasters on non degree courses and deter some of the foreign fake degree applicants, a pity they dont get rid of NVQ also (not valid qualification)

 

Just out of interest what are 'foreign fake degree applicants'?

 

jb

[shane39 10]

I think the point is that people with the right attitude will learn more and quicker than those with with good qualifications but think they know it all.

 

Doctors are well trained but they need to keep on learning and the ones that do are the best there are. The ones that don't are the ones you hope never to be staring up at from a hospital bed. Unfortunately arrogance and stupidity are qualities too many consultants seem to cultivate.

 

I work in an industry that is short of good people because too many bad people, with no technical skills, with poor communication skills, poor self discipline and a bad attitude to management have been given jobs in the past. That just means my skills are more in demand......................so I can charge more.

 

Ah!

So you work for local government.

[shane39 10]

I couldn't agree more, but at least some Business degrees are aptly named.

 

MBA - 'Master of Bugger All'.

 

The Master's course is probably better value. I attended a couple of lectures for BBA students and was horrified. 400 + students sitting in a lecture theatre taking notes - with no opportunity to ask questions or to discuss the points made. (I've no doubt those students had seminars ... but how many seminars could one lecturer give to 400 students in a semester?)

 

Business degrees are 'good news' for universities. You give the students a list of books to buy (they pay for those themselves), you put 400 students in a lecture theatre and one lecturer in front of them. No expensive laboratories, no expensive equipment.

 

An English degree might help in Business, but there are other degrees which make the graduate very attractive. A few years ago (when my nephew was reading physics at Southampton) he told me that a number of Banks had come head hunting in the physics department. A significant number of law graduates do not work in law. - Indeed, many had no intention of ever doing so. Good law graduates are often attractive to potential employers.

 

 

 

UEA closed their School of Physics in the late 1990s. Not because they could no longer teach it, but because - as they said - they couldn't attract sufficient students with the aptitude and qualifications to study the subject and they were unwilling to 'dumb down' the course.

 

The number of students at that particular University has increased significantly since the School of Physics closed. Given that the number of students has increased and the number of 'hard' courses has decreased, the only conclusion I can draw is that students are opting for easier courses.

 

My partner is a lecturer in business/marketing.She takes classes of up to 400 students,(masters level) Her workload is horrendous! With scant resources,or back-up.

[Shef_Fitness 10]

I think its sad that a University Education seems to hold such little value these days. It means our younger generations have a very poor choice when they start out in life.

 

When I was younger, many agencies took you on provided you were prepared to work. Many agencies now expect people to have a degree simply to do work in admin.

 

People say "the young should take any job", again the young are hammered with things such as car insurance, and paying bus fare to get to work is getting silly. £6.08 an hour doesn't go very far these days if you have to pay £4000 just for car insurance, unless of course you are planning to live with your mum and dad for the rest of your life.

 

With the "we must get everyone through university" mentality, the quality of the education offered has suffered badly. I studied IT and completed back in 2003, yet I have never worked in an IT role, I did teach IT as thats all I could get.

 

Many young people did Sports Degrees, Sport Science or other very expensive fitness related courses, sadly for these people doing a sports degree and "working in a fitness environment" are two completely different things, and sadly many of these people fell flat on their faces when they found the reality of the fitness industry. (probably in the same way I did after I'd completed my IT education).

 

I do hope that with the increase in fees that the education being offered, matches more closely to what is required to that particular industry. If its simply a case of gaining a piece of paper, then £50,000 debt is simply unjustified.

[Cyclone 10]

They could also have come out of school with Maths 'A' level and needed further tuition!

They could, but it wouldn't be a foundation year then as non of the students could have maths any more advanced than a-level (do they still do s papers, I took a couple)

 

My son (a mature student) was required to do a foundation course in Maths and Physics. The University he is attending accepted that his Chemistry was up to scratch (Should've been; he read Biochemistry the last time he was at University.)

 

He had left school with a reasonable ('B' - AFAIR) maths 'A' level and I thought the University was being a bit harsh. Then I saw the textbooks. The mathematics he was doing in his 'foundation' year went a long way beyond 'A' level maths - Even the separate Pure and Applied 'A' levels of 40-odd years ago.

 

The course was a bit of a pain - an additional year on a 4-year degree - but he found it was well-worth doing. When he started the first year of the degree proper, he had no difficulties whatsoever, but those who had entered with Maths at A* were having serious difficulties.

What were the entry criteria then, A* maths a level as a minimum (and they struggled) anyone else would need the foundation year for extra maths work.