Forced marriages in the news again

[Swan_Vesta]

I'm not sure either, to be honest.

 

I think that the problem has been a reluctance on the part of the authorities and agencies to tackle this issue head on which has somehow given a tacit endorsement to such practices. Most sane people find it abhorrent, however, many are loath to publicly condemn it because they're accused of racism and cultural arrogance. To advocate that it is acceptable in your back yard but not mine is the root of apartheid and wrong. Some rights are universal and should cut across cultures.

 

There's the problem though. Sane people find it abhorrent but are reluctant to condemn it so imagine how long it takes for an organisation to come to the conclusion that it's component individuals know to be wrong?

 

No rights are universal because cultural norms blockade them dependant upon localle.

[catzeyesF]

Arranged and forced marriages are different....Look it up please...While you are at it have a look what religions says about forced marriages. Ta. x

[scoop]

It sometimes seems that once again, people who should know better are willing to accept on other people's behalf (due to their 'religion' or 'culture') things that they'd view with horror if it were to be suggested they or theirs might be subject to it.

 

I remember being told about a certain section of Sheffield immigrants either sending girls back to the 'old country' or to private surgeons for the foul and abhorrent practice of female genital mutilation. They didn't want to come down hard on the practice for fear of upsetting the 'sensibilities' of these people! Sensibilities? hardly a word I'd have chosen to describe parents who'd inflict this on their daughters.

 

It's the same with the shipping daughters out to marry a random stranger in another country, the authorities could clamp down on it and stop it, but they don't really think it matters what happens to these girls, because of the culture they happen to have been born into, imo. It's disgraceful. All English girls should be equally valued, no matter what their background.

 

The post that says it all.

[Asif]

I was in a forced marriage...she forced me to marry her...

she did...

[Rupert_Baehr]

...I think that the problem has been a reluctance on the part of the authorities and agencies to tackle this issue head on which has somehow given a tacit endorsement to such practices. Most sane people find it abhorrent, however, many are loath to publicly condemn it because they're accused of racism and cultural arrogance. To advocate that it is acceptable in your back yard but not mine is the root of apartheid and wrong. Some rights are universal and should cut across cultures.

 

Again, we are in agreement. - I would add that those authorities and agencies who are reluctant to tackle the problem have only themselves to blame for allowing it to occur in the first place.

 

On those occasions when I've encountered people who worked for me who were racist, I've taken them to one side and tried to explain to them the error of their ways. It usually worked. - If it didn't, I'd try something else.

 

I don't go around tackling everybody who is racist - not because 'it's not my job' (though it isn't) but because I don't feel inclined to waste my energy and effort on people I can't change.

 

Apartheid = 'separateness', 'separate but equal' and (in my opinion) 'multi-cultural'.

 

I'm sure that there are many people who would argue: "No, when I advocate a 'multi-cultural' society, I mean a society in which cultures exist side by side in complete harmony."

 

Pigs might fly.

 

That may well be what they want from multi-culturalism, but I've seen little evidence to suggest it is what they are likely to get.

 

I agree with your suggestion that: "Some rights are universal and should cut across cultures" but I'm well aware that doesn't always happen.

 

Forced marriages are (almost certainly [i don't have case law to hand]) illegal in the UK. Encouraging a person to commit self-immolation is certainly illegal, as are (so-called) 'honour killings' and FGM. That doesn't mean they are not going to happen and I suggest that the frequency of occurrence correlates strongly with lack of cultural integration.

 

As I said in a previous post, I try (wherever possible) to live in small communities. I live in a town of about 3600 people - quite big enough, thanks .

 

In that town there are people from a number of different cultures. Nobody makes me adopt the whole of the local culture and nobody is going to object if I follow the morés of my own - unless my behaviour conflicts with local custom. If I was to behave in a manner which the host culture deemed to be 'unacceptable', it would be 'brought to my attention' very quickly and I would be required to follow local rules. - Or get out.

 

For example (and this infraction is nowhere near as serious as forced marriage):

 

On a typical English Sunday afternoon in summer (when it's not raining), the sound of lawnmowers is hardly uncommon. - English people do mow their lawns on Sunday afternoons.

 

Try that here and somebody will be knocking on your door before the engine on your mower has warmed up! Germans do NOT disrupt the tranquility of a Sunday afternoon by running a lawnmower. (They may well be outside flying model aircraft, but that doesn't count. )

 

I'm not stupid enough (not quite ) to think that everything is perfect, nor am I sufficiently arrogant (I'm working on it ) to think I've got the definitive answers.

 

My opinions are based on my observations during the last 60-odd years (and I've been an immigrant in one country or another for more than 42 of those years) together with the opinions of people who are generally accepted to be (or to have been) very wise and knowledgeable.

 

Winston Churchill (a pretty smart person) was a strong proponent of a 'United Europe'. Whether you agree with that, whether you agree with the EU[in its present form] is up to you, but it's difficult to argue with his reasoning.

 

He thought that if Europe was to end the cycle of wars and conflict which has plagued it for the last 1000 yeas or so, the cultures should come together. He saw multi-culturalism - lots of countries each doing its own thing, existing in fragile peace (for part of the time) and war or disagreement for the remainder as the enemy of peaceful co-existence.

 

Few people seemed to disagree with him.

 

If he was correct and if the way to live together in harmony is through a blending of culture, then why did so much of the world opt for 'separate but equal'? - Hosts of cultures adjacent to one another and often unwilling to mix.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Rupert_Baehr

[Suffragette1]

There's a discussion about forced marriages and the Forced Marriage Act on Woman's Hour now. Apparently, there has been an increase in the number of reports being made, which is encouraging.

 

A woman spoke about her personal experience of being taken away from school and sent abroad at the age of 13 to be married (20 years ago), she returned to the UK at the age of 14, pregnant, and no questions were asked. She eventually ran away from home 3 years later but stresses how difficult it is to escape. She argues that raising awareness is long overdue and how forced marriage is a form of child abuse, should be treated for what it is and the word 'cultural' should not even be applied to this practice.

 

What I didn't realise is that this is a civil and not a criminal offence, some fear that to make it a criminal offence would deter victims from coming forward as the last thing that they would want is for their parents to be arrested.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Suffragette1

[ricgem2002]

There's a discussion about forced marriages and the Forced Marriage Act on Woman's Hour now. Apparently, there has been an increase in the number of reports being made, which is encouraging.

 

A woman spoke about her personal experience of being taken away from school and sent abroad at the age of 13 to be married (20 years ago), she returned to the UK at the age of 14, pregnant, and no questions were asked. She eventually ran away from home 3 years later but stresses how difficult it is to escape. She argues that raising awareness is long overdue and how forced marriage is a form of child abuse, should be treated for what it is and the word 'cultural' should not even be applied to this practice.

 

What I didn't realise is that this is a civil and not a criminal offence, some fear that to make it a criminal offence would deter victims from coming forward as the last thing that they would want is for their parents to be arrested.

who cares what some people think ? if this was made to be a criminal offence then the people responsible would be prosecuted and dealt with accordingly .come to think about it why isnt it allready a criminal offence isit because we might upset a certain group of people

[Suffragette1]

who cares what some people think ? if this was made to be a criminal offence then the people responsible would be prosecuted and dealt with accordingly .come to think about it why isnt it allready a criminal offence isit because we might upset a certain group of people

 

I do think that it would deter people from coming forward, women and men who are vulnerable and in a disempowered situation, if they feared that their families would face a criminal prosecution.

[purdyamos]

Here's someone else - please note this is a voice from within the relevant community category - who says it like it is.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/16/thegovernmenthasbetrayedas

 

I wrote a longish post but I can't be bothered anymore. I've written about it enough times, linked to enough evidence, campaigns, etc. The racist relativism that has allowed coersive abuse like this to flourish in this country really disgusts me.

[Suffragette1]

Here's someone else - please note this is a voice from within the relevant community category - who says it like it is.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/16/thegovernmenthasbetrayedas

 

I wrote a longish post but I can't be bothered anymore. I've written about it enough times, linked to enough evidence, campaigns, etc. The racist relativism that has allowed coersive abuse like this to flourish in this country really disgusts me.

 

Good article. I agree with you and have said as much many a time on this board. The closing paragraph sums it up well:

 

It is racism of the worse kind - a tacit acceptance that vigorously affording them the same protection as other women is not necessary because of their colour or culture. The government is also happy to wait for the older generation to "die off", but for many thousands of women that slow change will come too late.

 

In a word - apartheid.