Who will replace Labour as the main "progressive" voice in parliament?

We seem to have rather done to death "The end of the Labour party"

It's clear to me now (perhaps not so much to others but allowing for that) that Labour is in the process of being destroyed or at least devastatingly crippled by Corbyn/Momentum.

I don't think that parliament will be left without a strong socialist/liberal/progressive voice for long so the question becomes that in the title.

I can see 4 reasonable choices:

1) The break-away group of Labour MPs which now seems all but certain.

2) The SNP (they'd have to expand their remit of course but why not?)

3) The Lib Dems (they're still weak from the 2015 GE, but they're at least cohesive)

4) An alliance/merger between 2 or more of these groups.

I considered putting these in a poll, but as we're only allowed one per thread I would like to see first if this discussion goes anywhere and where it goes.

Moderators: This is honestly a distinct question to the end of Labour and an attempt to move a stagnated debate forward. Please, please don't casually delete it without explanation.

Looking at the huge swing in the latest by-election, I would say the Lib Dems are in the ascension.

Looking at the huge swing in the latest by-election, I would say the Lib Dems are in the ascension.

Yes. Tim Farron could do worse than invest most of his parties resources right now to courting the 80% of Labour MPs not enamoured with Corbyn. Perhaps that's exactly what he is doing.

I'm not a fan of Farron, but the Lib Dems are able to change leader without self-destructing so taking the long-term view I shan't let that worry me.

who will replace Labour ?

Well, looking through the list of council candidates in recent years (available on the city council's website) I can still choose from several progressive parties to satisfy my Far-Left urges (if that's the correct term) take care of the hard-working working classes such as myself.

The Green Party

Yorkshire First

Give Me Back Elmo

The Kippers

Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition

We did have a BNP candidate once; I think he may have converted to Islam.

UKIP are back in the news with their own forthcoming leadership elections.

I've not heard or read much about the candidates. But they need someone absolutely squeaky clean to battle their tarnished reputation.

Although the Telegraph say this:

Ukip’s job is done. It’s time to disband and return home

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/15/ukips-job-is-done-its-time-to-disband-and-return-home/

So do they need to rebrand, perhaps "Purple Labour"?

I'd like to say the Lib Dems will rise again, but I don't think the electorate has finished punishing them for the 2010 coalition.

UKIP are back in the news with their own forthcoming leadership elections.

 

I've not heard or read much about the candidates. But they need someone absolutely squeaky clean to battle their tarnished reputation.

 

I'd like to say the Lib Dems will rise again, but I don't think the electorate has finished punishing them for the 2010 coalition.

I don't think of UKIP as "hard-right" the way many do, but nor are they "centre-left". Despite the fact that they're good at mopping up protest votes, I don't think they're in a position to become the main progressive voice in parliament.

I think people are starting to come around to the idea that the Lib Dems have now suffered enough.

We seem to have rather done to death "The end of the Labour party"

 

It's clear to me now (perhaps not so much to others but allowing for that) that Labour is in the process of being destroyed or at least devastatingly crippled by Corbyn/Momentum.

 

I don't think that parliament will be left without a strong socialist/liberal/progressive voice for long so the question becomes that in the title.

 

I can see 4 reasonable choices:

1) The break-away group of Labour MPs which now seems all but certain.

2) The SNP (they'd have to expand their remit of course but why not?)

3) The Lib Dems (they're still weak from the 2015 GE, but they're at least cohesive)

4) An alliance/merger between 2 or more of these groups.

 

I considered putting these in a poll, but as we're only allowed one per thread I would like to see first if this discussion goes anywhere and where it goes.

 

Moderators: This is honestly a distinct question to the end of Labour and an attempt to move a stagnated debate forward. Please, please don't casually delete it without explanation.

Wow, I had exactly the same thought after reading the last page of the other thread.

I personally think that any party with the name Labour will be toxic to most moderate voters, not just due to the Corbyn effect, but also to do with the legacy of Blair / Brown.

The SNP really are a one trick pony kind of party IMHO

Lib Dems seem to be making a bit of a comeback, but I think only due to Labour thrashing around in death throes.

I think the more right wing / moderate Labour MPs, will probably form their own party, becoming some sort of Social Democrat party.

Whether they then get enough votes (along with Lib Dems) to form an effective opposition to the Conservatives remains to be seen.

Wow, I had exactly the same thought after reading the last page of the other thread.

 

I personally think that any party with the name Labour will be toxic to most moderate voters, not just due to the Corbyn effect, but also to do with the legacy of Blair / Brown.

 

The SNP really are a one trick pony kind of party IMHO

 

Lib Dems seem to be making a bit of a comeback, but I think only due to Labour thrashing around in death throes.

 

I think the more right wing / moderate Labour MPs, will probably form their own party, becoming some sort of Social Democrat party.

 

Whether they then get enough votes (along with Lib Dems) to form an effective opposition to the Conservatives remains to be seen.

In the 1983 the precursor to the Lib Dems, the "Alliance" between the Liberals and the SDP, made an agreement that they would not split the vote where the other was stronger. They were doing jolly well for a while with a weak Labour (not as weak as now) and strong Conservatives who many wanted to vote against.

This level of alliance between Labour break-away, the Lib Dems (and perhaps the SNP) is all that would be required. There's not all that much to separate them on policy.

In the 1983 the precursor to the Lib Dems, the "Alliance" between the Liberals and the SDP, made an agreement that they would not split the vote where the other was stronger. They were doing jolly well for a while with a weak Labour (not as weak as now) and strong Conservatives who many wanted to vote against.

This level of alliance between Labour break-away, the Lib Dems (and perhaps the SNP) is all that would be required. There's not all that much to separate them on policy.

Apart from a strong desire to break up the UK!

Apart from a strong desire to break up the UK!

Let's see how long that lasts when they see a prospect of governing the whole union.

There is a major problem here. In thatcher's day you needed 40% plus of the vote to win an election because an opposition on 30-35% could muster 250 seats.

Times have changed. UKIP picked up 34% of the numbers voting tory and yet only picked up 1 seat whilst the tories picked up 331.

The tories won 331 seat and got an overall majority on just 36.9% of the vote. Ukip got one seat with 12.6%.

Here's the problem. If/when labour fragment their vote will be spread rather thinly amongst opposition parties. A party picking up 15-20% of the vote will be nowhere.

If labour, breakaway labour, libdems, ukip all pick up between 10 and 20% of the vote the tories could romp to a huge majority with under 35% of the vote. There is no opposition. The SNP could end up as the 2nd party of british politics and claim to be the opposition having secured under 1,500,000 votes.

We seem to have rather done to death "The end of the Labour party"

 

It's clear to me now (perhaps not so much to others but allowing for that) that Labour is in the process of being destroyed or at least devastatingly crippled by Corbyn/Momentum.

 

I don't think that parliament will be left without a strong socialist/liberal/progressive voice for long so the question becomes that in the title.

 

I can see 4 reasonable choices:

1) The break-away group of Labour MPs which now seems all but certain.

2) The SNP (they'd have to expand their remit of course but why not?)

3) The Lib Dems (they're still weak from the 2015 GE, but they're at least cohesive)

4) An alliance/merger between 2 or more of these groups.

 

I considered putting these in a poll, but as we're only allowed one per thread I would like to see first if this discussion goes anywhere and where it goes.

 

Moderators: This is honestly a distinct question to the end of Labour and an attempt to move a stagnated debate forward. Please, please don't casually delete it without explanation.

SDP/Liberal Alliance mark 2? It's happened before when Labour imploded... again due to a bit of hard left entryism from Militant....