Anna B 1,417 #49 Posted May 10, 2021 There is no doubt we need to change our ways and consider environmental issues as part of the cost of modern life. But in a society that sees constant economic growth, fuelled by consumerism, as a good thing, and every consideration trumped by profit, then I don't hold out much hope. 23 hours ago, Baron99 said: But 60% of sub-Saharan Africa are under 25 years old. As a white, European, I wouldn't fancy having to tell them to have fewer children. It would smack of imperiaIism & Empire. I think I'd have my suggestion thrown back in my face. Similarly, I can't see any of our politicians doing it either but something has to give at some point, especially if, as predicted the world warms up to such an extent that Africa will become uninhabitable as will much of southern Europe, so there will be more & more people moving to a more suitable & habitable northern Europe & places like Canada. Imagine a world population of 10 billion+, condensed into a much smaller mass? It's not just about population; one westernised person in the developed world consumes 35 times more resources than one person in the third world. We are the biggest part of the problem. The population problem is relatively easy to solve, and as countries develop the women have fewer children anyway, but how do we get westernised people to change, and consume less when everything is geared, in fact pushed to that end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
trastrick 866 #50 Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, altus said: You do realise that shows average temperatures increasing by about 0.5 deg. C over that time. Don't fall into the same trap that Trump did of confusing weather with climate - at best it makes you look like you don't understand what you are talking about. So, Einstein, what does that project to by the year 2100? Can you do the math? 0.5 degrees in 42 years? It would warm by another 0.94 degrees. But we have this: GENEVA (Reuters) - Global temperatures are on course for a 3-5 degrees Celsius (5.4-9.0 degrees Fahrenheit) rise this century, far overshooting a global target of limiting the increase to 2C (3.6F) or less, the U.N. World Meteorological Organization said on Thursday. November 29, 2018 and this: "How Hot Will Climate Change Make the Earth By the Year 2100" "The Impacts of Global Warming In general, scientists think that the planet is going to get anywhere from 3.5 to more than 8-degrees hotter by the year 2100", - Discover Magazine Feb 15, 2021 Lol Edited May 10, 2021 by trastrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus 541 #51 Posted May 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, trastrick said: So, Einstein, what does that project to by the year 2100? Can you do the math? 0.5 degrees in 42 years? It would warm by another 0.94 degrees. But we have this: GENEVA (Reuters) - Global temperatures are on course for a 3-5 degrees Celsius (5.4-9.0 degrees Fahrenheit) rise this century, far overshooting a global target of limiting the increase to 2C (3.6F) or less, the U.N. World Meteorological Organization said on Thursday. November 29, 2018 and this: "How Hot Will Climate Change Make the Earth By the Year 2100" "The Impacts of Global Warming In general, scientists think that the planet is going to get anywhere from 3.5 to more than 8-degrees hotter by the year 2100", - Discover Magazine Feb 15, 2021 Lol The only person assuming it was a linear increase over that time and projecting that into the future is you. Given the rapid and continuing industrialisation of China, India and other places, with consequent effects on consumption of energy and other resources, that would be a foolish thing to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers 270 #52 Posted May 10, 2021 Have you made your mind up yet only a few posts back you were saying global warming is massively hyped and temperatures had actually fallen . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers 270 #53 Posted May 10, 2021 The 3.5 to 8 degrees in the Discover article you posted is in degrees Fahrenheit. It's a horribly written piece. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
GabrielC 58 #54 Posted May 11, 2021 Another side effect of global warming is lack of rain fall in certain parts of the world. California from 2011 to 2017 had an prolonged drought many of the dams water levels fell to an new all time low many of these still are only 37% to 64% full also California had more than average wild fires last year. The former President Trump was all in denial about the California fires simply blaming the Fire Department and the Democratic state administration for it all. But no amount of blame could answer the water shortages that still effect the state now. The UK is flooding more has coastal erosion takes effect plus much more rainfall then previously experienced Sheffield flooded in 2007 after prolonged rainfall . Some parts of the planet will get much wetter others hotter Australia had an heatwave last year temperatures went over 40 degrees the human body can only cope with so much heat and only go for short time without water. We need to change now not later but no . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
trastrick 866 #55 Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GabrielC said: Another side effect of global warming is lack of rain fall in certain parts of the world. California from 2011 to 2017 had an prolonged drought many of the dams water levels fell to an new all time low many of these still are only 37% to 64% full also California had more than average wild fires last year. The former President Trump was all in denial about the California fires simply blaming the Fire Department and the Democratic state administration for it all. But no amount of blame could answer the water shortages that still effect the state now. The UK is flooding more has coastal erosion takes effect plus much more rainfall then previously experienced Sheffield flooded in 2007 after prolonged rainfall . Some parts of the planet will get much wetter others hotter Australia had an heatwave last year temperatures went over 40 degrees the human body can only cope with so much heat and only go for short time without water. We need to change now not later but no . "ACT NOW, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE" is the old Madison Avenue slogan designed to induce the gullible to part with their hard earned Worldly Goods. Long used to keep Popes and Archbishops in palatial splendor, Now adopted by leftist politicians and their pals in the Media. Because, unfortunately, it works! But should you trust them? The Hype Paul Erlich's foundational and inluential "The Population Bomb" "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate...[6]" Reality Population decline - Wikipedia. Up until the beginning of the industrial revolution, global population grew very slowly. After about 1800 the growth rate accelerated to a peak of 2.1% annually in 1968; but since then, due to the world-wide collapse of the total fertility rate, it has declined to 1.1% today (2020). The Hype "A 2017 study in Science Advances found that by 2100, temperatures could rise to the point that just going outside for a few hours in some places, including parts of India and Eastern China, “will result in death even for the fittest of humans.” - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/23/magazine/climate-migration.html "Between 150 to 300 million climate refugees might be displaced by climate change by 2050. Business Insider", Dec 25, 2017 "Higher sea levels will make today’s low-lying islands and many coastal regions, where nearly half the global population live, uninhabitable, generating an estimated 2 billion refugees by 2100". The Guardian, May 2019 The reality The Worlds oceanfront cities are growing, not declining. The Hype "Many of us watched the viral video in horror. A starving polar bear scavenging for food on barren land, his ribs visible beneath a jaundiced white coat. “This is what climate change looks like,” said National Geographic. The Reality "That picture of a single starving bear arguably did more to advance the issue of climate change than any white paper or IPCC report could have. Unfortunately, the footage tells us relatively little about the actual state of the polar bear population. "While you’ll find no shortage of headlines declaring that polar bears face extinction, the numbers tell a different story. "In The State of the Polar Report 2018, zoologist Susan J. Crockford says updates to IUCN data put the new global mid-point estimate at more than 30,000. Polar Bear Population Estimates - (New York Times, Int. Bear Assoc., Int. Wildlife, IUCN Plar Bear Study Group. 1950 - 5,000 1970 - 10,000 1984 - 25,000 2015 - 31,000 The Hype "According to a pathbreaking recent study in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the planet could see a greater temperature increase in the next 50 years than it did in the last 6,000 years combined. By 2070, the kind of extremely hot zones, like in the Sahara, that now cover less than 1 percent of the earth’s land surface could cover nearly a fifth of the land, - New York Times" The Reality "Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25. - NASA April 26, 2016 "Increased levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) have helped boost green foliage across the world's arid regions over the past 30 years through a process called CO2 fertilisation, according to CSIRO research". - PhysOrg The Hype "84% of the Worlds population identify with a religion". - The Guardian, 27 Aug 2018 Reality There is no Father, son, holy ghost, virgin births, archangels, or 72 virgins waiting for you up in Jannah (heaven). A previous poster asked how long will it take for the penny to drop? To which I can only answer, indeed. Edited May 11, 2021 by trastrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
top4718 838 #56 Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, trastrick said: "ACT NOW, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE" is the old Madison Avenue slogan designed to induce the gullible to part with their hard earned Worldly Goods. Long used to keep Popes and Archbishops in palatial splendor, Now adopted by leftist politicians and their pals in the Media. Because, unfortunately, it works! But should you trust them? The Hype Paul Erlich's foundational and inluential "The Population Bomb" "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate...[6]" Reality Population decline - Wikipedia. Up until the beginning of the industrial revolution, global population grew very slowly. After about 1800 the growth rate accelerated to a peak of 2.1% annually in 1968; but since then, due to the world-wide collapse of the total fertility rate, it has declined to 1.1% today (2020). The Hype "A 2017 study in Science Advances found that by 2100, temperatures could rise to the point that just going outside for a few hours in some places, including parts of India and Eastern China, “will result in death even for the fittest of humans.” - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/23/magazine/climate-migration.html "Between 150 to 300 million climate refugees might be displaced by climate change by 2050. Business Insider", Dec 25, 2017 "Higher sea levels will make today’s low-lying islands and many coastal regions, where nearly half the global population live, uninhabitable, generating an estimated 2 billion refugees by 2100". The Guardian, May 2019 The reality The Worlds oceanfront cities are growing, not declining. The Hype "Many of us watched the viral video in horror. A starving polar bear scavenging for food on barren land, his ribs visible beneath a jaundiced white coat. “This is what climate change looks like,” said National Geographic. The Reality "That picture of a single starving bear arguably did more to advance the issue of climate change than any white paper or IPCC report could have. Unfortunately, the footage tells us relatively little about the actual state of the polar bear population. "While you’ll find no shortage of headlines declaring that polar bears face extinction, the numbers tell a different story. "In The State of the Polar Report 2018, zoologist Susan J. Crockford says updates to IUCN data put the new global mid-point estimate at more than 30,000. Polar Bear Population Estimates - (New York Times, Int. Bear Assoc., Int. Wildlife, IUCN Plar Bear Study Group. 1950 - 5,000 1970 - 10,000 1984 - 25,000 2015 - 31,000 The Hype "According to a pathbreaking recent study in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the planet could see a greater temperature increase in the next 50 years than it did in the last 6,000 years combined. By 2070, the kind of extremely hot zones, like in the Sahara, that now cover less than 1 percent of the earth’s land surface could cover nearly a fifth of the land, - New York Times" The Reality "Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25. - NASA April 26, 2016 "Increased levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) have helped boost green foliage across the world's arid regions over the past 30 years through a process called CO2 fertilisation, according to CSIRO research". - PhysOrg The Hype "84% of the Worlds population identify with a religion". - The Guardian, 27 Aug 2018 Reality There is no Father, son, holy ghost, virgin births, archangels, or 72 virgins waiting for you up in Jannah (heaven). A previous poster asked how long will it take for the penny to drop? To which I can only answer, indeed. Good to see someone challenge the obsession with this nonsense, climates will change as they did when dinosaurs roamed the earth, in medieval times and again in the future, prophets of doom we're giving the earth a lifespan of 20 years 30 years ago, it seems the numbers of the gullible keep rising though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat 11 #57 Posted May 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, top4718 said: Good to see someone challenge the obsession with this nonsense, climates will change as they did when dinosaurs roamed the earth, in medieval times and again in the future, prophets of doom we're giving the earth a lifespan of 20 years 30 years ago, it seems the numbers of the gullible keep rising though. "Nonsense". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
top4718 838 #58 Posted May 11, 2021 2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: "Nonsense". Yes, absolutely. Why have the predictions of years ago happened yet, if you want to believe it go ahead. What happens when we pay all our green taxes and the climate still alters (as it will) do we get our money back? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
trastrick 866 #59 Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, top4718 said: Yes, absolutely. Why have the predictions of years ago happened yet, if you want to believe it go ahead. What happens when we pay all our green taxes and the climate still alters (as it will) do we get our money back? What is nonsense is that the influential luminaries of the catastrophic man made global warming cult, are not scientists, but laymen (is that word still allowed?) From Al Gore, who's family money came Occidental Oil. Greta Thunberg, a politically exploited teenager with (Asperger syndrome, obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), and selective mutism.[21] - Wiki) To Ocasia-Cortez, a 23 year old bartender who recently got elected in the U.S. She wants to spend $100,000,000,000,000.00 (that's one hundred trillion dollars) with her Green New Deal Plan to save the planet. Oh, and the millionaire Hollywood celebs with their private jetsm yatchts and oceabfron mansions. And let's not forget the Pope, who lives a grandiose carbon spewing lifestyle with his own palace, his own army, his servants, and even his own country, They all get a free pass from the global warming cult. But they DO care about you and I. You just have to believe! Scientist are smarter. In all their studies, models and projections there are the cautionary "ifs, "could". " may". But these qualifications are tossed out by the politicians and their media pals, and misquoted, as "likely", "imminent" and "will". Edited May 11, 2021 by trastrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus 541 #60 Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, trastrick said: The Hype Paul Erlich's foundational and inluential "The Population Bomb" "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate...[6]" Reality Population decline - Wikipedia. Up until the beginning of the industrial revolution, global population grew very slowly. After about 1800 the growth rate accelerated to a peak of 2.1% annually in 1968; but since then, due to the world-wide collapse of the total fertility rate, it has declined to 1.1% today (2020). That's a prediction of something that was supposed to happen 50 years ago. Since then we've been doing the two things that have proven really effective at reducing population increases - educating women and providing them with access to contraception. As has been mentioned on the forum many times before, we reached peak child years ago and global population will stabilise or fall in the future. Global population is still going to rise for several decades though because improved health care, particular in poorer countries, people are living longer. At the behest of his supporters, Trump stopped the US aid aimed at promoting population control. Quote The Hype "A 2017 study in Science Advances found that by 2100, temperatures could rise to the point that just going outside for a few hours in some places, including parts of India and Eastern China, “will result in death even for the fittest of humans.” - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/23/magazine/climate-migration.html "Between 150 to 300 million climate refugees might be displaced by climate change by 2050. Business Insider", Dec 25, 2017 "Higher sea levels will make today’s low-lying islands and many coastal regions, where nearly half the global population live, uninhabitable, generating an estimated 2 billion refugees by 2100". The Guardian, May 2019 The reality The Worlds oceanfront cities are growing, not declining. "Low-lying islands and many coastal regions" are not the same as "The Worlds oceanfront cities" so your claim about the latter doesn't disprove the former. Quote The Hype "Many of us watched the viral video in horror. A starving polar bear scavenging for food on barren land, his ribs visible beneath a jaundiced white coat. “This is what climate change looks like,” said National Geographic. The Reality "That picture of a single starving bear arguably did more to advance the issue of climate change than any white paper or IPCC report could have. Unfortunately, the footage tells us relatively little about the actual state of the polar bear population. "While you’ll find no shortage of headlines declaring that polar bears face extinction, the numbers tell a different story. "In The State of the Polar Report 2018, zoologist Susan J. Crockford says updates to IUCN data put the new global mid-point estimate at more than 30,000. Polar Bear Population Estimates - (New York Times, Int. Bear Assoc., Int. Wildlife, IUCN Plar Bear Study Group. 1950 - 5,000 1970 - 10,000 1984 - 25,000 2015 - 31,000 You're going to start having to produce some proper links to your sources so we can whether you've just made something up/quoted out of context, etc. Quote The Hype "According to a pathbreaking recent study in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the planet could see a greater temperature increase in the next 50 years than it did in the last 6,000 years combined. By 2070, the kind of extremely hot zones, like in the Sahara, that now cover less than 1 percent of the earth’s land surface could cover nearly a fifth of the land, - New York Times" The Reality "Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25. - NASA April 26, 2016 "Increased levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) have helped boost green foliage across the world's arid regions over the past 30 years through a process called CO2 fertilisation, according to CSIRO research". - PhysOrg Can you explain why you think 'some areas are going to get hot' is disproved by 'increased CO2 will increase plant growth'. Quote The Hype "84% of the Worlds population identify with a religion". - The Guardian, 27 Aug 2018 Reality Most of them in the US voted for Donald Trump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...