The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[Top Cats Hat 10]

Remember a relative needing a new TV. In those days they were much cheaper in NI than the republic. The new TV came across in boot of a friend’s car. charged 20 punts for bringing it through the border.

 

All the electrical and white goods shops in Newry used to price their goods in Punts as 90% of their customers were from the South. (Newry residents would actually go up to Belfast to buy those items as they were cheaper there!)

 

Whatever deal is cooked up between Britain, the EU and the Irish government, any attempt to reimpose a border of any sort will be resisted by the people on both sides of the border.

[Lockdoctor 10]

Just to remind you what you wrote.

 

You can't honestly believe after Brexit that it will be easier for illegal immigrants in mainland Europe to enter the UK via Ireland?

[L00b 441]

They are already here so doesn’t matter.

 

Looking forward an end to free movement means we would have to know the occupants of every vehicle, including who might be hiding in the boot. If free moment is still possible into the EU then anybody could cross into the U.K. if there were no checks.

 

Conversely, our own trade deals might feature agreement over movement of people, let’s say for example 200,000 temp visas a year for workers from India. The EU may also want to secure its own border

Don't confuse ‘free movement’ with ‘no controls’: the U.K. is not in Schengen, and so HMBF indeed checks ”the occupants of every vehicle, including who might be hiding in the boot” and has done for decades.

 

Free movement means freedom to go anywhere across the EU28 and visit and settle (subject to domestic variations and contraints on these basic rights, eg no entitlement to benefits for x months, must go back within 3m or 6m if can’t support themselves, etc).

 

It doesn’t mean “without having both ID and entitlement to cross the border checked”: only Schengen does that, which is a set of optional rules grafted ‘on top of’ the FoM principle.

 

Edit to add: persons checks should not be conflated with goods checks at borders, either. There are a ton more regulatory hoops, jumps, t’s and i’s that apply to goods for crossing a border, relative to people.

Edited July 20, 2018 by L00b

[nightrider 13]

Don't confuse ‘free movement’ with ‘no controls’: the U.K. is not in Schengen, and so HMBF indeed checks ”the occupants of every vehicle, including who might be hiding in the boot” and has done for decades.

 

Free movement means freedom to go anywhere across the EU28 and visit and settle (subject to domestic variations and contraints on these basic rights, eg no entitlement to benefits for x months, must go back within 3m or 6m if can’t support themselves, etc).

 

It doesn’t mean “without having both ID and entitlement to cross the border checked”: only Schengen does that, which is a set of optional rules grafted ‘on top of’ the FoM principle.

 

 

Not even Schengen gives you that. e.g France and Switzerland are both in Schengen, yet you may be asked to show ID when crossing the border. I have had to when I lived there in the recent past, though at more minor crossing points in practice you rarely get asked. But at the major crossing points (e.g. motorways) they do still randomly stop you and ask for ID.

 

Technically the request for ID might not come under their right to ask when you cross the border I suppose, but in practice they do ask. So they may have some other right to ask not related to borders, which they happen to sometimes use at the border.

 

Also amusingly all the goods checks on the motorway can cause long tailbacks, despite Brexiteers claiming they have a "frictionless border, so why can't we"!

Edited July 20, 2018 by nightrider

[L00b 441]

Not even Schengen gives you that. e.g France and Switzerland are both in Schengen, yet you may be asked to show ID when crossing the border. I have had to when I lived there in the recent past, though at more minor crossing points in practice you rarely get asked. But at the major crossing points (e.g. motorways) they do still randomly stop you and ask for ID.

 

Technically the request for ID might not come under their right to ask when you cross the border I suppose, but in practice they do ask. So they may have some other right to ask not related to borders, which they happen to sometimes use at the border.

 

Also amusingly all the goods checks on the motorway can cause long tailbacks, despite Brexiteers claiming they have a "frictionless border, so why can't we"!

Don’t forget exceptions to Schengen principles were requested by, and granted to, several countries in the wake of terrorist attacks over the past few years. France chief amongst them, and it’s bordering countries.

[nightrider 13]

Don’t forget exceptions to Schengen principles were requested by, and granted to, several countries in the wake of terrorist attacks over the past few years. France chief amongst them, and it’s bordering countries.

 

oh ok, could be that then (though I was stopped 4 years ago).

[SnailyBoy 10]

Not even Schengen gives you that. e.g France and Switzerland are both in Schengen, yet you may be asked to show ID when crossing the border. I have had to when I lived there in the recent past, though at more minor crossing points in practice you rarely get asked. But at the major crossing points (e.g. motorways) they do still randomly stop you and ask for ID.

 

Technically the request for ID might not come under their right to ask when you cross the border I suppose, but in practice they do ask. So they may have some other right to ask not related to borders, which they happen to sometimes use at the border.

 

Also amusingly all the goods checks on the motorway can cause long tailbacks, despite Brexiteers claiming they have a "frictionless border, so why can't we"!

 

Doesn't Switzerland have a carnet system for importing goods?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

Doesn't Switzerland have a carnet system for importing goods?

 

Yes, as well as goods passing through Switzerland on the way to somewhere else.

 

A real pain in the ass!

[Lockdoctor 10]

Yes, as well as goods passing through Switzerland on the way to somewhere else.

 

A real pain in the ass!

Switzerland don't have an hard border with the EU and are not in the Customs Union.

[L00b 441]

Switzerland don't have an hard border with the EU and are not in the Customs Union.

Pointless drawing any comparison with Switzerland on goods. The U.K. is not getting a Switzerland deal.

[Magilla 510]

Switzerland don't have an hard border with the EU and are not in the Customs Union.

 

They are in the single market & schengen.

 

You still have to stop and declare your goods.

 

They don't get passporting rights for financial services.

 

---------- Post added 20-07-2018 at 16:10 ----------

 

Pointless drawing any comparison with Switzerland on goods. The U.K. is not getting a Switzerland deal.

 

Indeed.....

[Lockdoctor 10]

They are in the single market & schengen.

 

You still have to stop and declare your goods.

 

They don't get passporting rights for financial services.

 

---------- Post added 20-07-2018 at 16:10 ----------

 

 

Indeed.....

I am just pointing out agreements can be made meaning there doesn't have to be an harder border between an EU country and country that is not in the EU. The UK Government have already agreed to allow free movement of people to continue across the Irish border. A technical solution has been suggested for declaring goods. Passporting rights are not going to put the Good Friday Agreement at risk, which several posters are apparently very concerned about protecting.