Rowdy hen parties and very sensitive women

[SnailyBoy]

It just seems you're suggesting we drop the benchmark for non-white people for fear of claims of discrimination...

 

It seems you've created a strawman.

[Cyclone]

And there are laws against that...

 

A demonstration of the state attempting to make the playing field more level.

It's hardly a 100% success though, pass a law, everyone stops discriminating.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:33 ----------

 

An unemployed white male, living on subsistence benefits with no formal qualifications, applied for a job with the British Transport Police (BTP). He'd read somewhere that they were looking for applicants from disadvantaged communities.

 

It was after he made his initial application that he discovered the BTP were running specialist workshops to help applicants prepare for the recruitment process - but the eligibility criteria for attendance meant it was only open to women, black people and those from minority ethnic groups.

 

This unemployed white male was excluded from the help with his application (that he so badly needed) specifically because of the colour of his skin, and his sex. Still, at least he could return home to his multi-story social housing flat in a deprived neighbourhood and congratulate himself on belonging to an advantageous group (that had brought him zero advantages in life).

 

Excluding people on the basis of their skin colour and sex is racist and sexist. Only extremists support such a non-inclusive policy.

 

Well, thanks for that.

This does nothing to further any discussion about privilege, if you want to talk about positive action in recruitment you could probably start a thread.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:35 ----------

 

Having "white male privilege" thrown at me feels like I should feel bad in some way for being white and male. Is it my fault that I'm less likely to be sexually assaulted or suffer racial discrimination?

 

You're missing the point then.

Nobody is allocating blame, nobody is saying you should feel bad.

Hell, I'm a white male myself, and I suspect with greater privilege than you.

Don't feel bad about it, just acknowledge that whatever achievements you make aren't ALL down to just working hard, when someone else has achieved less rather than assuming that they were just lazy, think that perhaps (and it's only a perhaps) they might have had a harder start in life.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:37 ----------

 

Ok - so do you think face to face you could sit with Dave, whilst he tells you how he can’t get any work, hasn’t got an education, is poor and struggling in life - that he is privileged (ie having special rights and advantages) on that basis?

Has privilege is not the same as IS privileged.

 

Or could you say there is racism and sexism in the world - but Dave - you are not privileged.

 

No, you couldn't say that.

He doesn't have lots of other privilege, well off parents, middle class background, and so much that comes with those two things, but you've now conceded that he has some privilege. Which is not the same as saying he is "privileged".

I don't know how you've read so much of this thread and still fundamentally don't understand the concept, unless you're just playing stupid.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:41 ----------

 

But the point is they fail to acknowledge its tangible forms - saying you are privileged means you have special rights (you don’t)

No it most definitely doesn't mean that.

and also advantages - and advantages is very broad.

 

So it’s perfectly right to say that it’s an advantage to be less likely to be sexually harassed or racially abused - but it doesn’t make it a privilege.

Yes, yes it does, that's specifically what the word means.

 

It’s the fact that racism and sexism exist - and generalising using statistics that there is a white male privilege is wrong because it doesn’t impact all white male people in the way the term suggests.

The privilege is that it doesn't impact them. They don't suffer from those problems, which women and coloured people do.

 

Using that same argument you could say it’s a privilege to have a disabled parking space - it’s an advantage to be able to park by the front door - is that a privilege? No.

No you couldn't. Being disabled is clearly not an advantage. And having a disabled parking space is an attempt to address the balance, no an inherent benefit that someone has.

 

Privilege is about rights really - something you are entitled to.

No, no it isn't. You're fundamentally wrong. You don't get to redefine a concept that you don't understand.

Privilege is about the innate advantage that a group gets simply from being that group.

 

White males aren’t entitled to anything - some racists and sexists offer opportunities to people undeservedly - but a lot of people don’t get those opportunities- so where is their privilege?

White males are free from the disadvantages that society imposes on women and non-white people. That's an advantage, that's privilege.

You can't change what the term means to suit you.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Cyclone

[Guest makapaka]

A demonstration of the state attempting to make the playing field more level.

It's hardly a 100% success though, pass a law, everyone stops discriminating.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:33 ----------

 

 

Well, thanks for that.

This does nothing to further any discussion about privilege, if you want to talk about positive action in recruitment you could probably start a thread.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:35 ----------

 

 

You're missing the point then.

Nobody is allocating blame, nobody is saying you should feel bad.

Hell, I'm a white male myself, and I suspect with greater privilege than you.

Don't feel bad about it, just acknowledge that whatever achievements you make aren't ALL down to just working hard, when someone else has achieved less rather than assuming that they were just lazy, think that perhaps (and it's only a perhaps) they might have had a harder start in life.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:37 ----------

 

Has privilege is not the same as IS privileged.

 

No, you couldn't say that.

He doesn't have lots of other privilege, well off parents, middle class background, and so much that comes with those two things, but you've now conceded that he has some privilege. Which is not the same as saying he is "privileged".

I don't know how you've read so much of this thread and still fundamentally don't understand the concept, unless you're just playing stupid.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 07:41 ----------

 

No it most definitely doesn't mean that.

Yes, yes it does, that's specifically what the word means.

The privilege is that it doesn't impact them. They don't suffer from those problems, which women and coloured people do.

No you couldn't. Being disabled is clearly not an advantage. And having a disabled parking space is an attempt to address the balance, no an inherent benefit that someone has.

No, no it isn't. You're fundamentally wrong. You don't get to redefine a concept that you don't understand.

Privilege is about the innate advantage that a group gets simply from being that group.

White males are free from the disadvantages that society imposes on women and non-white people. That's an advantage, that's privilege.

You can't change what the term means to suit you.

 

privilege

ˈprɪvɪlɪdʒ/Submit

noun

1.

a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

"education is a right, not a privilege"

synonyms: advantage, right, benefit, prerogative, entitlement, birthright, due; More

verbformal

1.

grant a privilege or privileges to.

"English inheritance law privileged the eldest son"

[Car Boot]

White males are free from the disadvantages that society imposes on women and non-white people. That's an advantage, that's privilege.

 

How is the British Transport Police policy of excluding white males from accessing essential recuitment support workshops on the basis of their skin colour and sex an "advantage" for a white male?

 

Surely it's a disadvantage?

 

Women and Black/Ethnic minorities have been given special rights to attend these workshops. White males are not welcome and are prevented from attending, because they have the wrong skin colour and sex. Who has the priviledge and who has the advantage?

 

We should remember that extremists have always used group generalisations to support their twisted view of the world.

[SnailyBoy]

How is the British Transport Police policy of excluding white males from accessing essential recuitment support workshops on the basis of their skin colour and sex an "advantage" for a white male?

 

Surely it's a disadvantage?

 

Women and Black/Ethnic minorities have been given special rights to attend these workshops. White males are not welcome and are prevented from attending, because they have the wrong skin colour and sex. Who has the priviledge and who has the advantage?

 

We should remember that extremists have always used group generalisations to support their twisted view of the world.

 

What percentage of the BTP are white male?

[Halibut]

How is the British Transport Police policy of excluding white males from accessing essential recuitment support workshops on the basis of their skin colour and sex an "advantage" for a white male?

 

Surely it's a disadvantage?

 

Women and Black/Ethnic minorities have been given special rights to attend these workshops. White males are not welcome and are prevented from attending, because they have the wrong skin colour and sex. Who has the priviledge and who has the advantage?

 

We should remember that extremists have always used group generalisations to support their twisted view of the world.

 

You keep on coming back to this one, despite it having already been shown ro be a non story. Is this really all you have to offer to the discussion?

[Car Boot]

You keep on coming back to this one, despite it having already been shown ro be a non story. Is this really all you have to offer to the discussion?

 

Racial and sexual discrimination being dismissively labelled as a "non story" by bigots and racists is, sadly, still happening today.

[Halibut]

Racial and sexual discrimination being dismissively labelled as a "non story" by bigots and racists is, sadly, still happening today.

 

How do you feel about the White Power movement?

[Ridgewalk]

If you remember to frame them as questions and use a questionmark it would help.

 

I've no idea which particular case you're referring to and I'm not going to indulge in your silliness, but I'd suggest that if you really can't think of a single reason why a woman might not want to report a sexual assault to the police then you're terminally dense.

 

I, like Cyclone can report that a great many of my female friends have used the 'me too' hashtag recently.

 

Have you ever considered actually blaming men, rather than trying to insinuate that women are the architects of their own misfortune?

 

 

 

It’s good that these issues are at last being discussed in a serious way and in the public domaine. I’m currently watching a Parliamentary debate on the matter

 

Interestingly a Tory MP has asked to broaden the discussion to explore the issue of bullying.

 

When the dust settles over this perhaps more thought should be given to bullying and condescending behaviour

[Guest makapaka]

You keep on coming back to this one, despite it having already been shown ro be a non story. Is this really all you have to offer to the discussion?

 

I don’t necessarily agree with the post you are responding to - however saying that they offer nothing to the discussion is a bit of a joke coming from you.

 

You didn’t contribute at all over recent posts - not answering any points put to you just occasionally putting single lines of support to cyclones posts.

 

You have now asked someone what they feel of the white power movement - which equally doesn’t add anything to the discussion - similar to when you randomly posted a song the other day and when asked your view on how it contributed to the discussion you just ignored the question.

 

I’m beginning to think you are just trolling for racist / sexist views without really having anything to say - why is that?