House of lord brexit

[tinfoilhat 11]

Worth a read this, just for the comments - start with the highest rated ones first.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39136739

[chalga 10]

The EU are correct to keep the guaranteed rights of UK citizens to remain in the EU as a card to be played if and when needed.If this isn't sorted to both parties satisfaction,does anybody think that the final deal will be ratified by member states that have a large amount of FDI coming into them from their people in the UK?

If the UK want to put their cards on the table before negotiations have even started,it's up to them.

[melthebell 864]

This is supposition. We don't know what the international trading position of the UK will be post-Brexit.

you said it

[tinfoilhat 11]

The EU are correct to keep the guaranteed rights of UK citizens to remain in the EU as a card to be played if and when needed.If this isn't sorted to both parties satisfaction,does anybody think that the final deal will be ratified by member states that have a large amount of FDI coming into them from their people in the UK?

If the UK want to put their cards on the table before negotiations have even started,it's up to them.

 

If we do that, won't it put us in a stronger position, at least morally? Wouldn't the rest of the world go "look at the UK being the bigger man and look at the mean EU", or will it make us look like a soft touch? Besides, we can change our mind can't we - sovereignty and all that?

[unbeliever 10]

If we do that, won't it put us in a stronger position, at least morally? Wouldn't the rest of the world go "look at the UK being the bigger man and look at the mean EU", or will it make us look like a soft touch? Besides, we can change our mind can't we - sovereignty and all that?

 

Best to just keep both options on the table for now. Surely.

[L00b 441]

The €area debt to gdp ratio is still over 90% is it not? 91.7% is the latest figure I can find from 2016.

Looking at the countries/group 'that matter', in descending order (figs variously across 2013-2016):

 

US debt to GDP ratio 104.2%

€zone debt to GDP ratio 90.7%

UK debt to GDP ratio 90.6%

EU debt to GDP ratio 87.4%

Germany debt to GDP ratio 78.4%

China debt to GDP ratio 43.9%

 

But then, the devil is in the detail, as always: the above, which is government debt (conventionally when looking at 'debt to GDP ratio' of a country), may not be fully representative of a country's level of indebtment and, therefore, its relationship to that country or zone's GDP (and the economic activity which it sub-tends).

 

If you look at e.g. China and add corporate and household debt to the picture, that 44% ratio jumps to 277%. If you take the same approach to the US, that's 331%. Remember my raising Mr White's credentials yesterday? Them be the numbers he's looking at (besides so many others).

 

I'm not convinced that debt to GDP ratio was a point worth raising, ub.

Only thing is as a departing member, not part of the € (despite the europhiles' best efforts) we don't have to bail out Greece, then Spain, then Italy then who knows who else.

The UK never ran that risk, then or now. Presumably you remember that from our exchanges pre-referendum?

[unbeliever 10]

Looking at the countries/group 'that matter', in descending order (figs variously across 2013-2016):

 

US debt to GDP ratio 104.2%

€zone debt to GDP ratio 90.7%

UK debt to GDP ratio 90.6%

EU debt to GDP ratio 87.4%

Germany debt to GDP ratio 78.4%

China debt to GDP ratio 43.9%

 

But then, the devil is in the detail, as always: the above, which is government debt (conventionally when looking at 'debt to GDP ratio' of a country), may not be fully representative of a country's level of indebtment and, therefore, its relationship to that country or zone's GDP (and the economic activity which it sub-tends).

 

If you look at e.g. China and add corporate and household debt to the picture, that 44% ratio jumps to 277%. If you take the same approach to the US, that's 331%. Remember my raising Mr White's credentials yesterday? Them be the numbers he's looking at (besides so many others).

 

I'm not convinced that debt to GDP ratio was a point worth raising, ub.

 

Was it not?

 

 

You taken a look at the UK's national debt lately?

[InigoMontoya 10]

The house of lords have now voted on brexit, with an amendment, that we should , unilaterally give leave to stay for all non nationals. As May has already tried to take this off the table, in negotiations. Is it right that we should put non nationals above British expats working living in the EU?

 

They have had the right to remain unambiguously guaranteed by the Foreign Secretary, speaking prior to the referendum in June.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html

 

 

“EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

 

[L00b 441]

Was it not?

No, that quote was by reference to Germany's reserves in the preceding sentence. But well.

They have had the right to remain unambiguously guaranteed by the Foreign Secretary, speaking prior to the referendum in June.

You ever heard the sentence "past performance is no guarantee of future results"?

 

Never so apt with politicians. Especially blatantly two-faced ones like BoJo.

[apelike 10]

WTO arbitration.

 

But is that not just for the WTO members?

[sgtkate 10]

But is that not just for the WTO members?

 

Who isn't a member of WTO? Us or the EU countries? Or was that your point that the EU couldn't seek arbitration through the WTO as it's members are in the WTO but the EU as an entity is not?

 

The EU is a member: https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/european_communities_e.htm

As is the UK as both a member of the EU as above and in it's own right: https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/united_kingdom_e.htm

[InigoMontoya 10]

No, that quote was by reference to Germany's reserves in the preceding sentence. But well.

You ever heard the sentence "past performance is no guarantee of future results"?

 

Never so apt with politicians. Especially blatantly two-faced ones like BoJo.

 

That must have been what they meant by the "advisory" bit of the referendum.